Re: The lost indo-european tongue (was: the lost romance tongue)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, yl-ruil wrote:

>On Sunday, January 30, Padraic Brown wrote
>
>> >A quick example, displaying the mediopassive and the passive:
>> >daeros moigator, ca con illom moigamosae "Times change, and we are
>changed
>> >with them".
>>
>> Neat. Is ca "we" or "and"? And is daeros from a non-IE root?
>
>Ca is "and", a later form of "cue", from the IE *kwe (cf. the Latin
>clitic -que, -cue can also be used as a clitic in Aredos, but not ca). As I
>recall, I derived daeros from IE *di-, meaning "divide, set apart". The
>original sense of daeros was "hour, period of time", but it later came to
>mean "time in general", note that it is a singular noun "times" is daerí. A
Time = "that which is divided" kind of thing. I suppose I should
also have asked what moiga- comes from.

>proper morphological breakdown of the phrase is:
>
>daeros = time- nominative
>moigator = change- present 3rd person singular mediopassive indicative
>ca = and
>con = with, by
>illom = it- accusative 3rd person singular
>moigamosae = change- present 1st person plural passive indicative.
>
>Aredos is quite a subtle language, and some things should be pointed out.
>The use of the mediopassive in the first verb indicates that time is
>changing purely for its own benifit.
M-P in T. is used here because "time" can't actively change anything.

> The secoond clause, ca con illom
>moigamosae, uses con "with" which has a comitative sense: we are changed not
>by the time, but at the same time, if we were changed _by_ the time illos
>would be illó, in the instrumental. The use of the passive indicates that we
>have no control over the happenings.
I suspect cum = instrument comes along when that case is lost - as
in Latin and English. -com in T. is never instrumental.

>
>> In Tallarian, it would be:
>>
>> warta   tiwas-coi, mes-pa      tas-com   wartere
>> changes times-the  we-likewise them-with (are) change(d)
>>
>> T. doesn't differentiate M-P and passive.
>>
>> warta   (wartim, to spin, change, twist) 3.s.pres.M-P.indic
>> tiwas   (tiwas, day; age) common.pl.nom
>> -coi    (cos, the) C.pl.nom
>> mes     (mes, we plural) pl.nom
>> -pa     (pa, and likewise) conjunction
>> tas     (tas, the) C.pl.acc
>> com     (com, with) really takes abl., loc. or inst. but those cases
>>         are lacking in the plural
>> wartere (wartim) 1.pl.pres.M-P.indic
>
>Is Tallarian an IE language? It certainly looks like one.
Tis. The only word our two sentences share is "com". I could have used
-he in place of -pa, which would simply mean "and" rather than "and
likewise"; and of course is derived from *kwe. Other shared
morphology: -os (Tal. -us), which is common gender nom. sing.; -om
(Tal. -am), common acc. s.; -mos (Tal.  -mes), which is the 1st dual
ending; -to- (Tal. -ta), of course the MP ending; -r (Tal.  -er(e)),
another MP form.

Padraic.

>
>Dan
>