Re: TRANS: common expressions.

>From: CARLOS THOMPSON "<carlos_thompson@...>"
>Subject:      Re: TRANS: common expressions.
>From: Gerald Koenig wrote:
>> -------------------
*senya::- v. indicate, point out, sign.

>> The list:
>[...]
>> #Where is the bathroom?
>>
>> Kuol vis dixanut?
>>
>> Kuol is partly modeled on "cual". In
>> "?Cual es la fecha de hoy?"
>> we can say that there is a VARIABLE TYPE
>> "fecha" [date] and  an [abstract] OBJECT, "hoy" [day].
>
>Cannot the {-ne} suffix replace the {kuol} question word or {-ne} shouldn't
>be used with vector particles?
>
From the dictionaries:
"-ne","what X (forms question word)",,
 def Nd is question word formed from N

vis::- a space type of vector.

>In this case:
>
>?visne dixanut?
This to me translates:
"Which spacevector bathplace?".
It lacks a verb. If je is used,
"?visne je dixanut." we get
"?Which spacevector equals the bathplace.?"
which is understandable but not a good equation.
We could say:
Which spacevector points to the bathplace?
?Visne *senya u' dixanut?
in TVS all right. There is no problem mixing
vector particles with TVS so long as the grammar is parseable and the
semantics work.

<-ne> seems more like <cual> than it does like <kuol>. Kuol really is
like "whois" or "whereis" commands in IRC, the <is|es> is bound to it
and the other side of the "is" equation is a required VALUE of a
variable TYPE. It is calling for  numbers or an algorithm convertible
to numbers. "Dixanut" doesn't easily do that. Kuol is almost more of a
blank form to be filled out than an adjective. It is defining an
attribute for the OBJECT. It was somewhat misleading for me to compare
it to cual; cual was the main source of the idea and one of my favorite
Spanish words, but it is more than that.  Formal Definitions:

>
>> kuol::- What is the value of the VARIABLE TYPE for
>> [abstract] OBJECT.
>>
>> maul::- The value of the VARIABLE_TYPE for [abstract]
>> OBJECT is:

>>
>> vis::-a space type of vector. [Vit is a time-type vector.]
>>
>> ?Kuol vis dixanut? translates as:
>>
>> ?What is the value of the SPACE_VECTOR for
>> BATHPLACE?
>> ie, Where is the bathplace?
>> ANS:
>> Maul [vis] dixanut <xa pasju lesi>.
>> The value of the space-vector for "bathplace" is:
>> "should move straight ahead a short distance";
>> in English, "The bathroom is straight ahead a short ways"
>
>Well.  I see the parallel {kuol}/{maul}.  How whould it be said without
>{maul}?
>*  dixanut je xa pasju lesi
>(?)
"Bathplace is should move forward short distance."

This is not working. I would say that to do it without <maul> the
definition of <maul> would have to be translated to TVS, ie.  "The
value of the space vector for dixanut je xa pasju lesi." Ku valyen be
ku vis kiov dixanut je xa pasju lesi.  That makes it clear that <xa
pasju lesi> is an algorithm that can be evaluated by an operation of
measurement and presented as a vector.

The idea behind kuol and maul is to compress a lot of structural
grammar and type declarations and yet maintain a parseable english
sentence structure. English is my metalanguage. Spanish is ok too, or
another natlang. I just want a very clear structure in natlangs other
than NGL. Kuol/maul are best understood by examples like the
ones below. Constructs like them abound in html and shell programming.
On the level of usage they are not difficult, and they are at least as
concise as english.

>
>> The value of "spacevector" for "bathroom" is 6 meters straight ahead.
>>
>> <xa pasju lesi> is considered a vector in the same sense that the
>> vector <pi, epsilon, phi>, (constants), would be. Pi is used in place
>> of 3.1416.. Pi points to a procedure, an algorithm, for computing a
>> number. It is an effective procedure, ie pi, e, phi are computable. In
>> the same sense, a coherent set of directions is computable and will
>> yield a position vector which can be expressed numerically. Any
>> effective algorithm can be used as a vector construct substituting for
>> numbers.
>>
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                                 <Kuol> and <maul>
>> are also very useful with other variable types such as TIME, NAME,
>> CARDINAL, ORDINAL, and others:
>>
>> ?Kuol NOM uvu?
>> What is the value of NAME for you?
>> What is your name?
>> Maol NOM Jerry.
>> Maol Jerry.
>> The value of NAME for me is JERRY.
>> ?Kuol VIT Los Angeles?
>> What is the value of the time-vector for Los Angeles?
>> Maol 1:04pm PST Los Angeles.
>> The value for the time-vector for Los Angeles is 1:04pm PST.
>> It is 1:04 pst in la.
>> [ros] Maol vit 10^87 atik Los Angeles.
>> [maybe irrealis] It is 10^87 time-atoms since the big bang in
>> Los Angeles.
>
>-- Carlos Th
>
Jerry