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Re: Furrin phones in my own lect! (YAGPT warning!)

From:Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>
Date:Monday, March 27, 2006, 13:58

Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> writes:
> Henrik Theiling skrev: > > >>(I believe German has a near-obligatory glottal stop before > >>word-initial -- possibly even morpheme-initial -- vowels, so I have > >>the same tendency.) > > I remember my mother, who is a German L1 speaker, correcting > me when I pronounced the word _Verein_, which I had only > encountered in writing, as [fe'rain], insisting that it > be [fe6'?ain]! > > Since _ein_ is a stem, I think your rule holds, except > that it should be "stem-initial and word initial": > surely a prefix like _un-_ is pronounced [?un]!
Right, I had missed that. Even more, prefixes starting in vowels will always have a glottal stop in front (I think), even if you stack them: uneinsichtig un-ein-sicht-ig ['?Un?aI)n,zICtIC] So probably it's stem and prefix initially where glottal stops are mandatory.
> My other, and hence I, has a strange feature in her German > pronunciation: she vocalizes /r/ to [6] in spite of the fact that > her unvocalized /r/ is apical [r] or rather [4]!
I don't think this is a common combination in any dialect, but I don't know whether I would have noticed. From the description, I'd say the combination is uncommon, but I would have to hear it.
>... > On the subject of "hard" phones the diphthongs arising in German > from short vowel + vocalized /r/ are hard to me in spite of my > almost L1 pronunciation (German being my L1.5! :-). >...
Yeah, I can understand they must be hard for some people -- I find uncommon diphthongs hard myself.
> I tend to merge them all as something like [3(:)] or even [E(:)]. > Is this something I've invented myself, or is it a feature of Berlin > accent, which influenced me quite a lot when I learnt German as a > kid? N.B. this does *not* happen when the underlying vowel is long: > _Firma_ is ['f3ma] for me but _Vier_ is [fi6] or even [fi:6]. ...
Well, the short /i/, which is [I] for most (and in the standard) is [1] in the diphthong /ir)/ for many Germans. So you get a typical ['f16)ma] in many natives' pronunciation. I find this very close to [3], actually. My own local variant of High German (Eastern Westphalian) has simplifications in these /r/-diphthongs: I collapse all short and long diphthongs in -[6], often with quality shifts of the first vowel and I do not distinguish /a(:)r/ from /a:/. Here's my table: /ir/ = /i:r/ = [i:6)] /yr/ = /y:r/ = [y:6)] /Er/ = /e:r/ = /E:6/ = [E:6)] /2r/ = /2:r/ = [9:6)] /ar/ = /a:r/ = /a:/ = [a:] /or/ = /o:r/ = [O:6)] /ur/ = /u:r/ = [u:6)] **Henrik