Re: /w/ vs /B/

Eric Christopherson wrote:

> On Jun 5, 2007, at 12:15 AM, Roger Mills wrote:
> > Not so sure I'd call it a "shift", as it seems restricted AFAICT to
> > those
> > three words;
>
> There's also a current slang term <güey> (I've also seen the spelling
> <wey> but I assume that's pronounced the same), standard <buey> "ox"
> - used to refer to a person (probably male only, but I'm not sure)
> either with contempt or with affection, depending on context.
Not sure I've seen that, but it's certainly possible. I have seen the agüelo
etc. mentioned in your later msg.  (Don't speak much Spanish these days, and
don't read current stuff.......)

> > Then there's the delicacy spelled "guacamole" pronounced
> > [waka'mole], I'm
> > not sure which one is correct/corrupted. There may be a
> > relationship with
> > aguacate 'avocado'. Ult. < Nahuatl or other Mexican language.
Barry Garcia explained this one nicely:
"Aguacate comes from Nahuatl "ahuacatl" which means "testicle" (much
like the Orchis genus) "ahuacamolli" - avocado sauce. Molli is also
where the Mexican Spanish word "mole" comes from, which simply means
sauce. (although it refers to the savory sauce usually served over
chicken or turkey)."

So it was presumably a definite /w/ in Nahuatl (and (-V)huV- is the most
common way of indicating /w/); so the -VguV- may be either for [VGwV] in
16th C. Spanish ears, or maybe a folk etymology involving "agua" in some
way.

>
> What are the possible (allophonic) pronunciations of utterance-
> initial <gu>/<w>, anyway? I have this notion that they are normally
> [Gw], but that seems strange since I don't [B]/[D]/[G] appear
> initially in other cases. You may be right that sometimes they're
> [w], though.
Initial /g/ is always [g] (even in guV- ~güV-) except in rather casual
speech-- and maybe there are present-day dialects that I'm not familiar
with. All initial vd.stops can become fricatives if the preceding word ends
in a vowel, though "correctly" they shouldn't...