After all these discussions, does Indika qualify to be a euroclone? Visit my
site again,
http://www.geocities.com/nsinha_2003/index.htm
New features have been added for Nihilosc and the site has been revised and
formatted.
Nikhil
<-> Jan van Steenbergen likis:
> --- Padryk Brãziej skrzypszy:
>
> > > > First, it is an auxlang (thus putting it in the
> > > > same category as Ido, E-o, Volapuk, etr.)
> > > > Secondly, it closely mimics one or another of
> > > > the previously introduced european based
> > > > constructed auxlangs in grammar, vocabulary or
> > > > structure.
> > >
> > > Is that so?
> >
> > As I understand the term; and as is definded by
> > Henning below (though better than I did!).
>
> On the contrary, I think your definition is quite good. My only objection
is
> against the sentence "it closely mimics one or another of the previously
> introduced european based constructed auxlangs", because it rules out
Esperanto
> itself.
>
> > That is a _very_ confusing list! I think they
> > must have misapplied the classifier "euroclone".
> > Ignota? The roots have nothing to do with _any_
> > European language's roots; Laadan? hardly
> > European! Solresol? Come on! Solresol may well be
> > an IAL, but it's not a euroclone IAL.
>
> Indeed. I don't really know what motivated Jeffrey into classifying Ignota
as a
> Euroclone, since he provides another category that would fit perfectly:
> superset language.
> As for many other languages on langmaker.com: they were classified not by
the
> owner, but by the authors themselves, many of whom obviously were not
familiar
> enough with the terminology.
> BTW, why don't you add Kerno to the collection of Langmaker.com?
>
> > > Jeffrey Henning: [...]
> >
> > This is largely the definition I pieced together
> > from hearing the word used in conversation. I
> > would add only that a euroclone must be a
> > conlang. After all, French is derived from
> > European stock and has primarily Romance and some
> > Greek roots! It's hardly a euroclone!
>
> :)) No, indeed!! Of course, Jeffrey's definition was also pulled out of
its
> context (definitions of different conlang types).
>
> > > Rick Harrison: [...]
> >
> > That's more a description than a definition.
>
> My mistake. I should have added to Rick's defense that he didn't present
it as
> a definition.
>
> > > In other words: if you would stand
> > > up tomorrow and proclaim Kerno
> > > as the new IAL to end all IALs, would that
> > > suddenly make it a Euroclone?
> >
> > :D Well, no! It would, however, be the IAL to End
> > All IALs! If for no other reason than that the
> > world will unite and forever revolt against the
> > very notion of IALs!! ;)))
>
> Cool. I'll be the first to learn Kernanto, then!
>
> > > No, because it has too many original features
> > > of its own (not to mention the fact that
> > > its grammar isn't exactly what one would
> > > call "simplified").
> >
> > Oh, I don't know...I find it pretty easy! :)
>
> Ha! But no so easy as Wenedyk. All you need to do, is learning four cases,
> three genders, five tenses, four moods, and only a few irregular verbs,
besides
> practicing the sibilants a bit and installing a special keyboard
definition on
> your computer!
>
> > > he has a point when he calls Euroclones
> > > "projects that closely resemble Ido or
> > > Interlingua or a hybrid of the two".
> > > [...] I wonder if it would really
> > > make sense to include languages like Volapük,
> > > Tutonish or Slovio. Perhaps we should just
> > > limit the term Euroclone to its
> > > pejorative use, and baptise the languages in
> > > question "Esperantoids".
> >
> > Are you saying that all european derived IALs
> > (Volapuck and Tutonish included) should be called
> > Esperantoids; and leave euroclone to the
> > specifically Eo/Ia like IALs? A sort of
> > classification scheme?
>
> No, quite the opposite. You see, there are two kinds of conlangs that we
are
> talking about: the IAL/auxlang in general, and the subset that consists of
all
> those Romanesque auxlangs that includes Esperanto, Interlingua, Romaklono
and
> the like (the ones that I for the sake of convenience baptised
"Esperantoids"),
> but not auxlangs like Volapük, Tutonish, or Afrihili. In other words, I am
not
> looking for definitions, but trying to find a group name for that
particular
> category.
> And well, the problem with the name euroclone is that it is ambiguous:
> practically, it encompasses the esperantoids, but according to Jeffrey's
> definition it would also include Volapük, Basic English, and, say,
Celltiecc.
> That just doesn't feel right to me. Besides, an additional problem with
the
> term euroclone is its pejorative connotation.
> No, I think I'll settle for the term esperantoids, and leave euroclone in
its
> negative meaning. I don't feel we need a special name for the esperantoids
+
> Volapük and Basic English, anyway.
>
> > Personally, I don't care -
> > they're just IALs after all!!!
>
> I'll grant you that! But that does not mean that an adequate name is
couldn't
> be helpful from time to time...
>
> > > So, what would in your opinion be the
> > > difference between a Eurolang
> > > and a Euroclone?
> >
> > Well, the fundamental feature is IAL v. artlang,
> > really. As I said (and according to Henning's
> > def.), a Euroclone is "an IAL derived from
> > European stock (specifically Romance)".
>
> Well, that's doesn't solve much! Is it an IAL derived from Romance stock,
or an
> IAL derived from European stock (for example Romance)?
>
> > A Eurolang would then be "any conlang (especially
> > nonIALs) derived from any European stock".
> >
> > Kerno, Wenedyk and Brithenig would be Eurolangs;
> > Ia, Ido and Eo would be Euroclones (as well as
> > being Eurolangs).
>
> Sure. But it seems to me that the term Eurolang is redundant, then.
Wouldn't it
> be enough to call Kerno, Wenedyk and Brithenig "romlangs" (even though the
> latter term would not by definition exclude French and Romanian)?
>
> Jan
>
> =====
> "Originality is the art of concealing your source." - Franklin P. Jones
>
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