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Re: CHAT: Visigoths (was: YADPT (D=Dutch))

From:Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Thursday, November 13, 2003, 6:09
On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 08:05 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:

> At 20:07 11.11.2003, Ray Brown wrote:
[snip]
>> south wind]), and which I've seen anglicized as Ostergoths (surely >> 'Eastergoths' >> would be better) are almost certainly the eastern Goths. > > Ostro- fits the Germanic "east" about equally bad, > since this should be *austra-.
I have changed my position in view of Andreas' mails - and now say nothing stronger than "may mean "Eastern Goths." I have seen 'Ostragoths' which, I suppose, might be the Gmc. *austra-.
> Sure at least > Wulfilan Gothic (which is essentially Visi-) has > gone through a *au > /O:/ sound change, but what > one would have to do is to look up the "east" word > in a Gothic dictionary. Unfortunately I don't > have one handy at the moment...
Nor me. Meanwhile, I'm trying to discover what Gmc. words uisi- and ostro- repesent if they mean 'noble' and 'shining' respectively.
> And what would Gothi or Gotones become in French?
If they'd developed as assimilated Vulgar Latin terms, we'd have: les *Gœus (the 'o' in Gothi being 'short') _or_ les *Gotons But in fact they say: les Goths, which is obviously a learned borrowing from Latin. But then we anglophones do just the same. The Old English was Gotan (singular 'Gota') - Goth is a learned borrowing from Latin. Ray =============================================== http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown ray.brown@freeuk.com (home) raymond.brown@kingston-college.ac.uk (work) ===============================================

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Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>