Re: CHAT: Visigoths (was: YADPT (D=Dutch))

Quoting Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>:

> On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 08:05 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
>
> > At 20:07 11.11.2003, Ray Brown wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >> south wind]), and which I've seen anglicized as Ostergoths (surely
> >> 'Eastergoths'
> >> would be better) are almost certainly the eastern Goths.
> >
> > Ostro- fits the Germanic "east" about equally bad,
> > since this should be *austra-.
>
> I have changed my position in view of Andreas' mails - and now
> say nothing stronger than "may mean "Eastern Goths."
>
> I have seen 'Ostragoths' which, I suppose, might be the Gmc.
> *austra-.
After some frustrating searches on Google, I can't say I've found much of
relevance to this. But in the excerpt I append below - nicked from what
appears to be a discussion of whether there indeed was a connection between
the Late Ancient Goths and the Scandinavian groups that where later refered to
in Latin as "Goths"*. What's interesting is this "A Gothic Etymological
Dictionary", by one Winfred P. Lehmann, which apparently contains a discussion
of the etymology of ostro-. Perhaps someone with easier access than me to a
humanistic Uni library can find it? I can look here, but I'm in the wrong
field and in the wrong Uni.

* This identification was popular enough that the Swedish province-names
_Östergötland_ and _Västergötland_ are traditionally latinized as
_Ostrogothia_ and _Visigothia_. The ethnonym _göte_, pl _götar_, is of course
commonly thought to be related to "Goth", but few scholar today would dare
identify also the peoples.

Thought: Gothic is East Germanic, while the Götar spoke North Germanic
dialects. This ought to suggest that any common origin goes all the way back
to Common Germanic - when in time would that place us?

                                                           Andreas

Appendix:

...

Certainly Professor Lehmann's is not an "interpretation", in the
sense that he "invented" it. As you know, Winfred P. Lehmann is the
compiler of "A Gothic Etymological Dictionary", and the entries
there certainly only reflect the current opinion of science, as it
is reflected in its journals.

Under the letter "O" the dictionary has the major part of a column
devoted to "Ostrogothae" and he refers to a scholar "Wagner" who
has published on its etymology ca. 1967. He also refers to
Hachman ca. 1970.

For Ostrogothae he has the name explanation "Shining Goths",
i.e. not "East Goths". He refers the term back to words for
"brightness", "dawn", and "Easter".

Any way, I think we seriously ought to consider that "Ostro"
does not necessarily refer to a geographic direction, but
rather to the quality of "light".

...

Reply