Re: CHAT: Visigoths (was: YADPT (D=Dutch))

On Thursday, November 13, 2003, at 11:28 AM, Andreas Johansson wrote:

> Quoting Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>:
[snip]

>> According to Chamber's English Dictionary:
>> sing. Guta ~ pl. Gutans
>> also
>> sing. Guts ~ pl. Guto:s
>> also
>> Gutþiuda [4th letter is thorn] = the Gothic people
>
> Interesting; the mapping Guts<->Gothus and Guta<->Gotha is almost too
> good.
But why the short 'o' in Latin?

> (I've never actually seen Latin *_Gotha_, but it must surely have existed
> given pl forms like _uisigothae_.)
Good point - I've checked in Lewis & Short, and apparently all attested
examples
have the word with 2nd. declension plural endings.  It doesn't mean, of
course,
that *Gotha never occurred - just that we have no record of it.
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On Thursday, November 13, 2003, at 11:15 AM, Andreas Johansson wrote:

> Quoting Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>:
[snip]

>> I have changed my position in view of Andreas' mails - and now
>> say nothing stronger than "may mean "Eastern Goths."
>>
>> I have seen 'Ostragoths' which, I suppose, might be the Gmc.
>> *austra-.
>
> After some frustrating searches on Google, I can't say I've found much of
> relevance to this.
I had similar frustrating searches on Google   :)

[snip]
> in Latin as "Goths"*. What's interesting is this "A Gothic Etymological
> Dictionary", by one Winfred P. Lehmann, which apparently contains a
> discussion
> of the etymology of ostro-. Perhaps someone with easier access than me to
> a
> humanistic Uni library can find it? I can look here, but I'm in the wrong
> field and in the wrong Uni.
Yes, I can't imagine my local Uni would have it either.  :(

[snip]

> For Ostrogothae he has the name explanation "Shining Goths",
> i.e. not "East Goths". He refers the term back to words for
> "brightness", "dawn", and "Easter".
Right - but I thought this was related to the 'eastern' words.
It's not uncommon to find the same words used for 'dawn' and
'east', cf. Latin: auro:ra; ancient Greek: heo:s/ he:o:s/
ha:wo:s etc.

> Any way, I think we seriously ought to consider that "Ostro"
> does not necessarily refer to a geographic direction, but
> rather to the quality of "light".
The Goths of the dawn, of the new era.....

Ray
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Ray
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