Re: CHAT: Visigoths (was: YADPT (D=Dutch))

Quoting Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>:

> On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 07:55 PM, Andreas Johansson wrote:
>
> > Quoting Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>:
> [snip]
>
> >> _gothus_ is certainly attested in the Classical period, though not till
> >> a
> >> late period.
> >> Possibly they were also called _gotho:nes_ or _goto:nes by Tacitus, and
> >> Gu:tones by Pliny; though some argue, apparently, that the latter two
> >> writers were
> >> referring to the_Getae_ in the area of Prussia or modern Lithuania.
> >
> > Would those be the same as the Danubian _Getae_, whom Jordanes confused
> > with
> > the Goths?
>
> Probably, I guess.  The Germanic groups obviously moved around and the
> Roman &
> Greek authors also were getting their info at 2nd, 3rd ... nth hand - so
> plenty
> of scope for confusion and misinformation   :)
According to Nationalencyclopedin, the Danubian Getae were Thracian, not
Germanic. Unless "Thracian" is to be interpreted as a purely geographic
characterization - the trouble with encyclopedias is that they tend to be
overly brief!

> The identification of Getae and Goths persisted for a long time (and
> possibly
> is still held by some); in Leyden in 1597, a Bonaventura Vulcanius
> published:
> "De literis et lingua Getarum sive Gothorum."
Well, there's still people home in Östergötland who just _know_ that the
Ostrogoths came from there, and the Amals from their particular village!

> >> What's going on is simply a difference in Latinizing a non-Latin
> >> Ethnicon.
> >> There was no "Academia Latina" to decide such things  :)
> >
> > What's the Gothic form of "goth" anyway?
>
> According to Chamber's English Dictionary:
> sing. Guta ~ pl. Gutans
> also
> sing. Guts ~ pl. Guto:s
> also
> Gutþiuda [4th letter is thorn] = the Gothic people
Interesting; the mapping Guts<->Gothus and Guta<->Gotha is almost too good.
(I've never actually seen Latin *_Gotha_, but it must surely have existed
given pl forms like _uisigothae_.)

                                                         Andreas

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