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Re: USAGE: rhotics (was: Advanced English + Babel text)

From:Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
Date:Wednesday, November 3, 2004, 16:06
Quoting "J. 'Mach' Wust" <j_mach_wust@...>:

> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:54:06 -0500, Pascal A. Kramm <pkramm@...> wrote: > > >On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:24:13 -0500, Sally Caves <scaves@...> > wrote: > > > >>In pronouncing German, I try my > >>best to produce the back-trilled "r." I can't do it, it comes out > >>sounding like a French "r," but I respect it and the uvular acrobatics of > >>its natives. > > > >German "r" is definitely NOT trilled. It's the voiced uvular fricative. > > The only definite assertion about the pronunciation of German /r/ is that > there's a lot of variation (and I'm talking about standard German, not about > the dialects). Some varieties have [r] (which is also recommended in the > prescriptive tradition) but most have nowadays either [R\] or [R].
This happens to be one of the points where Duden and Siebs disagree. I suppose there can be no stronger statement that there is no single standard pronunciation of German /r/.
> Independent from that, there's a variation analogous to the one between the > rhotic and non-rhotic dialects in English: Most varieties of standard German > vowelize the /r/ after long vowels or schwa, and many vowelize it after > short vowels as well.
It's 'vocalize'.
> >I'm not that good at French, but afaik, it's prectically the same there. > > I thought that a real trill [R\] is most common. In Parisian speech (and > other), /r/ is devoiced in weak syllables after voiceless consonants, so > that e.g. |mettre| turns out as [mEtX]. There are no r-dropping dialects at > all, if I'm not wrong.
Christophe used to tell us that the uvular trill is as good as dead in the French of France today, the uvular fricative being close to universal. Andreas