Re: Core Cases (was Re: Ditransitivity (again!))

On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 06:39:10PM +0100, Andreas Johansson wrote:
> Quoting "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh@...>:
>
> > P.S. I'm also duly impressed by Lojban's dispensation with the natlang
> > misfeature that one particular verb argument must always be present (eg.
> > the nominative or subject). Ebisedian also dispenses with this
> > requirement, having replaced the (in my view) cumbersome system of
> > passives with a unified system where active and passive are identical.
> > Take for example the verb _fa't3_ (to see); perfective _fww't3_:
> >
> >         fww't3 ebu'.            I see.
> >         jhit0' fww't3.          She was seen.
> >         jhit0' fww't3 ebu'.     I see her / she was seen by me.
> >
> > The active statement is formed simply by omitting the originative place,
> > and the passive statement is formed simply by omitting the receptive
> > place. When both are present, the distinction between active and passive
> > is semantically irrelevant, and the Ebisedian neatly (if I may say so
> > myself) uses the same expression for both.
>
> I assume the changing tense in the translations is not intentional?
Correct. You could either blame it on Ebisedian's lack of verbal tense, or
the same lack in my L1. :-)

> Tairezazh does much the same, despite having a rather run-of-the-mill
> accusative case system:
>
> Ta tesh             I see
> Tesh senas          see her (=she was seen)
> Ta tesh senas       I see her
>
> The idea's originally nicked from Tolkien's Adunaic.
Ah, so it's a case of acadeb then? (acadeb = "another conlang's already
dunnit except better" :-P) I wonder what other Ebisedian oddity is an
acadebic feature. :-)

> The sister lang Steienzh holds on to it's nominatives more forcibly, and
> would say:
>
> Ta teshsh         I see
> Ta teshsh sens    I see her(/him/it)
> Teshshez sen      She(/he/it) is seen
>
> (_Sen teshshez_ would be more neutral syntax in the last example.*)
So _Teshshez_ is a passive verb?

> Nonetheless, it does sport the traditional Klaishic "zerovalent" verbs like
> _kreshsh_ "(it) rains".
[snip]

Now that's a nice concept, zerovalent verbs. Ebisedian doesn't really have
such a notion, although it's possible to state a verb without any nouns.
It would then be possible to use, eg., the receptive slot to indicate the
land it is raining on, etc..


T

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