Re: USAGE: 'born'

From: "Nik Taylor" <fortytwo@...>
> Muke Tever wrote:
> > If "to be born" was _lexically_ an *active* verb (like Sp. <nacer>), then
its
> > passive would mean something like "to be given birth to".
> >
> >     Maria nació.   "Mary was born."
> >     Maria se nació.  "Mary was born [PASS]"
> >         (which makes me want to ask: ¿Cómo se nació Maria?)
>
> Nacerse is not a legal verb in Spanish.
I don't see why not.  People use it, in any event.

About.com mentions it:
http://spanish.about.com/homework/spanish/library/verbs/bl-nacer.htm

I find it used on a webpage:
"Esta organización tiene que acabar de nacerse. [...] Tienen que nacerse ya y
empezar a caminar sin nosotros dentro de su cuerpo." (This organization needs to
finish being born...They need to be born already and begin to walk without us in
their body)

Or, in a more literal sense:
"Su bebe puede nacerse adicto a drogas si usted las usa durante el embarazo."
(Your baby could be born addicted to drugs if you use them during pregnancy)

Phrases along the lines of <...donde se nació> "...where they were born" appear
to be common.

> To be born is an intransitive verb, an intransitive verb CANNOT have a
> passive, because it cannot have an object.  A passive is when an object
> is made into the subject.  If one used it transitively, it would have a
> causative meaning (or an idiomatic meaning, but that's another issue),
> i.e., "cause to be born", e.g. "give birth to".
The situation of the _action_ may have an implied object (which may appear when
further information is added to the sentence) that becomes the de facto subject
of the verb when passivized.

I don't know if the way I phrased that last bit makes any sense so I'll give an
example.

    John slept.

Now, 'sleep' is intransitive, and doesn't take any objects. But the act of
sleeping has related objects anyway--one sleeps *in or on a place or object*,
for example.  But even if you said "John slept in that bed", 'in that bed' isn't
the object of <slept>, but a modifying phrase.  But <sleep> can be passivized.

    That bed of nails was slept in (by John).

... this is perfectly normal, isn't it?  True, you can't just say *<The bed was
slept.>, but I think that's what I said earlier about there generally being more
information in such a passive.

Other examples:

    Jenny jumped.  [how? --off a cliff]
    The cliff was jumped off of (by Jenny).

    Murió Maria.  [how? --of illness.]
    La enfermedad se murió Maria.

(found: "Enfermedad de vivir: de esta enfermedad se murió Acuña.")

    The pope arrived.  [where? --the airport]
    ...this airport which was arrived at (by the pope)

    Nació José.  [¿donde? --en este casa]
    ...este casa donde se nació (José)

(found: "El recuerdo de la casa donde se nació")


    *Muke!

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