Re: Germanic and Celtic (was Re: Verb-second ... verb-penultimate languages?)

Hallo!

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:37:24 +0100, R A Brown wrote:

> Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > What do you mean by "they"?  If you mean Continental Celtic, it is
> > generally
> > accepted that they are the closest kin of Insular Celtic; I don't know why
> > Ray always puts "Celtic" in quotes.
>
> Not always, but often   :)
>
> I know this is controversial, and there was a thread about this some
> time back so I do not want to stir things up, but only to answer Jörg's
> query.
>
> None of the ancient authors ever refers to any of the inhabitants of
> Britain & Ireland as Celts. Indeed, no one referred to anyone in these
> islands as Celtic until the 18th century.
Yes; however, Caesar noted the similarity between the languages of the Britons
and the Gauls.  At any rate, "Celtic" is merely a term of convenience for a
group of related languages, and I think this relationship is established
beyond doubt.  And there are worse misnomers, such as "Hittite" and
"Tocharian".

>        Since then, however, the term
> has acquired overlays of all sorts mythic and political connotations
> that are unwarranted, so some of us are not entirely comfortable with
> this blanket term.
I see.  There is lots of rubbish being published about the Celts.

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:36:48 +0200, Andreas Johansson wrote:

> This would seem somewhat besides the point - the question isn't whether the
> *name* "Celtic" is appropriate, but whether the grouping so designated is a
> natural one. Do we know enough of ancient Gaulish, Celtiberian, and allies
to
> confidently assert that these languages are more closely related to what's
> popularly known as Insular Celtic  than either is to Italic or Germanic?
I think the grouping *is* a natural one; there seems to be consensus about
that among linguists.  It is at least as well-established as Italic (which
I *did* see put in quotes because some scholars question the closeness of the
relationship between Latin and Sabellic).

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