Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Hear Me! Hear Me!

From:Tristan McLeay <kesuari@...>
Date:Sunday, June 23, 2002, 7:50
On Sun, 2002-06-23 at 17:16, Adrian Morgan wrote:
> Aleks koch wrote, quoting [Adrian Morgan]: > > > words "There" "World" "Our" "Morgan" are basically the same as you
'There' sounds as though it's having an abnormal pronunciation (it could, of course, be a normal pronunciation for you, but the rest is fairly Australian so maybe I'm just linking it to what I know). 'World' sounded a bit strange, don't know what exactly it is, it could just have been a bit less rounded than mine is or something.
> > did. Most of the other words are differently pronounced though, and > > in truth the only thing similiar is that I pronounce an "r" in those > > words in the same way you did. > > Do you consider the vowel-phrase in "our"/"devour" to be a triphthong?
I'd consider 'devour' to have a triphthong, but not 'our' (which is just /{u/; consider 'our own', which is [%{u"w8un], not [%{u"r\8un] (hmm... that looks like gibberish). ('Hour', however, has the the triphthong.)
> Seems to me that it is: > > Its first vowel is the same [&] as in _south_ [s&uT] [which, > interestingly, is wider (closer to [a]) than the [&] in _at_ [&t] or > _aye_ [&i], which is relatively closed (closer to [E]).
Probably not all that interesting, actually. The [{u] vowel derives from an earlier [au], whereas the [{i] comes from [ei], so they're just reflecting their heritage. (I can't hear a difference, though.)
> I'm not sure which of these two variants is considered "pure" [&],
My guess is it's [{u]'s vowel that is: I understand the Australia [{] is higher than the American, which is 'pure'. I'm pretty sure it's higher than the Finnish, if that helps. (Tangentially, I've found me sometimes neutralising /I/ to [@] and raising /{/ to [E] when I shouldn't be, similar (but not identical) to what Kiwis* do. Nevertheless, /E/ doesn't seem to want to budge, and when it does, it heads south, merging with /{/ (cf. the salary/celery merger).) *Apparently, 'Aussie' was first found in print in Kiwiland. Conveniently enough, what caused 'Kiwi' to refer to NZers was a Melburnian company.
> or how they are distinguished in narrow transcription,
With a raised or lowered diacritic, or if you could afford it, with [a] for the lower of the two.
> Its intermediate vowel isn't [u] because it doesn't involve moving > the lips. It seems to involve a tightening in the back of the mouth. > This intermediate vowel may be lost entirely in casual speech.
Different to me: the middle vowel in the /{u@/ triphthong *is* a [u] (or [U] or [w] or something). Although it's normally included, it sometimes disappears, with compensatory lengthening on the previous vowel (i.e. [{;]). When it disappears, the [@] becomes more [{]-like. (The /u/ is very likely to die when the /@/ is pronounced as [r]; when it doesn't, the /u/ becomes an [y] for whatever reason; this occurs to any [u] (or whatever vowel I actually use there; I have suspicions it isn't [u]-proper) before an [r].) Tristan.