Long Wer Poetry ( Was Re: New survey... )

John Cowan  <jcowan@...> 2003.01.16. 08:38:55 -5h-kor írta:

> What follows is not a critique of your poem; I'm just wondering if the
> changes from JRRT's original are the result of translating from Hungarian
> (or some other language) or if they are adaptations made necessary by
> Long Wer poetics (or plain lack of vocabulary).
It it the necessarity of meter. It is not a literal translation. The Hungarian
One is even more different fromthe English original.
Long Wer poetry is basically metrical with line structure:

- vv | - vv | - vv | x (x)
Where - is a long syllabe, v is a short syllabe, x can be both and parentheses
include an optional syllabe. But that is not optional within the poem, if you
used it once, you should use in all the other lines.
Rhyming is optional but mostly used in older poems, and it
is present inside the lines not between two lines.

> Mau Rauszer scripsit:
>
> > Elda.wer.e.sse sehem wu ruya.u
> > Elf.great.ATT.SOC mighty 3 ring.PL
> > (there is) with the Great Elves, three powerful ring
>
> The location "under the sky" is omitted.
'pet.e.d.wi' ( sky.ATT.LOC.under )

See, it did not fit my metre. I actually rewrote the poem not
translated :)

El-da-we-res-se se-hem wu ru-yau
-    v   v  |  -   v    v  |  -     v   v  |  -

(au is regarded as a diphtong at the end of polisyllabical words)

> > Yew ta Nauq.q.e sil.ah per.u.d.it
> > 7 the Dwarf.DAT.ATT shine.AP house.PL.LOC.in
> > For the Dwarves in shiny places, seven.
>
> "Shiny places"?  JRRT says "halls of stone".
Perti.u.d.it dido.g. (hall.LOC.in stone.ABL lit. halls from stone)

> > Rúya wa Neb Dua.q angewiant' (full form: angewiante)
> > ring 1 Lord Dark.DAT cunning-to-death
> > One Ring for the Dark Lord who's cunning to his death
>
> "who's cunning to his death" for "on his dark throne".
Cats have no words for 'throne'. Perhaps 'edanga' "chair" would fit.
"Edanga.d.ang dua(t)" (chair.LOC.on dark) duat stands for  both
"darkness" and "dark" but analogy created also 'dua' for "dark"

> > Lanzi.d e-Mordor u dúat.u ré.d.
> > Land.LOC ATT.Mordor be.3pl shadow.PL day(time).LOC
> > In the land of Mordor (where) there're shadows in the daytime
>
> This doesn't make much sense to me in any language: where are there
> shadows *except* in the daytime?
I did not mean physical shadows. I meant "evil spirits" under the term "shadows".
And most culture believed that evil spirits come at night, and Mordor is
full of these shadows _even_ in the daytime.

But I translated the original. The literal translation of the hungarian One is as follows:

Shine three rings on the hand of the Elven Kings
Be seven the right of the Dwarves, whose house is the gaudy stone
Shine the light nine on the finger of Mortal Man
Own the Dark Lord, who baffles the herd of slaves, one
In the pitch black land of Mordor, on the field of dense shadows
One Ring over all, One Ring cruel
One closes you into the darkness, the One is a shackle
In the pitch black land of Mordor, on the field of dense shadows

Thus it is very different, it is quite a good translation since English
expressions sometimes come out in Hungarian very weird.

-- Mau
Gad ú Hea taqe? Where has the light gone?

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