Re: Save of the dative, the genitive's is already dead!

Hi!

# 1 <salut_vous_autre@...> writes:
> Carsten Becker wrote:
>
> >Hello all,
> >
> >My dad recently got angry about the question why the genitive disappears
> >more and more in German. I didn't know the reason or if there is a
> >comparable process in other languages. However, the genitive can be
> >replaced by a dative construction in all places in spoken language.
>
> I don't speak German but I think that it is similar to something in French
>
> The preposition "de" when it marks the genive can be replaced by "à" that
> usually marks the dative
>
> My father's car = La voiture de mon père ~ La voiture à mon père
>
> Is it similar to what you think that happens in German?
Hmm, no.  In German, the replacement works in two areas: for the plain
genitive in noun-noun phrases, it is replaced by a prepositional
clause:

   das Auto meines Vaters -> das Auto von meinem Vater
   my father's car        -> the car of my father

As a side effect of using the preposition, the dative is used instead
of a genitive, since 'von' wants dative case.

The second place where it happens is in prepositional clauses where
the preposition used to trigger genitive, but now triggers dative
in colloquial speech:

   wegen des Autos    -> wegen dem Auto
   because of the car

I don't think the French phenomenon is similar, although its spreading
seems comparable.

**Henrik

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