Re: YAC: Widse -- a conlang based on Ygyde

Christophe Grandsire wrote:

>Rhyme, alliteration, prosody,
>etc... actually none of those things are needed to make poetry.
>
You realise what this means, don't you? I'm really am going to have to
come up with something new, but to do that, I'll need to find out all
things old, which'll require a new thread! Muahaha!

>Well, look at the thread about retroflex consonants started today ;)) .
>
I pressed send, checked my mail, and there it was. A brilliant co-incidence!

>A cluster r+consonant (or consonant+r) can easily become a retroflex :) .
>
Well, that'll involve making the clusters; Ygyde wasn't very helpful in
that respect. But I need to make 'em anyway... (Anyone feel like an
onset like /rtfl/? It'll be rather difficult to come up with something
like that, and work out ways of how one r+t --> t` and another doesn't
(easy enough, just make vowels become silent/metathesise at different
times)... or maybe the rule is just that r+r > r\`, after all, that's
why I want the retroflexes.)

>Since you used phonemic instead of phonetic transcription, it doesn't indeed.
>You needn't be overly precise in this transcription.
>
True enough, but it's still nice to be consistent. /me takes a look at
this thread. Thinks... ^]dd*

*For those unfamiliar with vi, that deletes the line. I doubt it'll
appear as a single line after its been sent, but it was one when I typed it.

>>Oh, and the stuff happening in the Locative that looks like dsa- makes
>>the ds /j/ and dso- makes the ds /D/? You're wrong.
>>
>>
>I didn't think of it at all, especially since dsoilu is pronounced /v\y/ ;))
>
Oh, good. It could've just been a one-off oddity, though I'm not too
keen on them. I prefer my oddities and irregularities to be normal and
regular.

>(great Maggelish-looking word by the way ;))) ).
>
Thanks! :P

>> Lulling you into a false sense of security.
>
>
>The essence of Maggelity. You are talking to an expert ;))) .
>
Thanks, but I still need to make the floor fall out :)

> The old i- that died off helped make the
>
>
>>decision; if it were a u- it'd be more like what's happening in dsoilu
>>/v\y/. I just don't want to have silent vowels floating around mucking
>>up my orthography; you've seen what its done to English, haven't you?
>>
>>
>>
>It's made it *interesting* ;))) .
>
Only because we have Ks with our Cs: if we didn't, wouldn't <bac> /b&k/
and <fac> /f&is/ be more interesting?

>Hehe, Maggel just loves silents letters ;)) .
>
I prefer my letters to combine into horrible cominations so it looks
like you have a silent letter, but really, it's just a part of the
bigger picture. I mean, the <l> out of <ailu>, it'd suggest something
more like /2:/ that /eu/.

>But in your case, if getting rid of silent letters helps maggelity, please do
>so! There are more than one Path to Maggelity ;))) .
>
There is more than one Path to Maggelity. Or is that just dialectal?
'There are' would make more logical sense...

>> (No word for either of those, so I'll just use
>
>
>>ymape (female relation) and ymepe (male relation) > _mab_ /mab/ m.
>>'wife' and _mefe_ /me:/ f. 'husband' (if they aren't boring, I don't
>>know what is... maybe I'll do some compounding or more interesting
>>semantic shift).)
>>
>>
>Well, I find them already nice enough this way ;) .
>
Whose language is it? :P

>Because they expect use to praise them, and after a while, seeing that it
>doesn't work, they leave. They are mostly blocked in the thought that *they*
>have the key to world communication and peace, and cannot cope with
>disagreement, even if they can fake it for a while. You will note that although
>he himself criticised Ygyde, he never *changed* anything in it (he just added
>this ill-thought mapping of CV syllables to CVV ones), while a wealth of
>solutions were presented to him. I keep on thinking that he never meant any of
>the critics he gave himself. He just used them to look modest (you'll note that
>each time we used the same critics as him, he kept on defending Ygyde by saying
>how worse other philosophical languages are. Typical rejection of
>responsibility). When you criticize yourself but don't make any effort to
>change, I cannot believe you mean the critics you utter...
>
Yes... that makes sense... I think someone who came with an artlang left
because no-one praised (or criticised) them for it... Maybe you're
right. (Oh, and btw: a critic is someone who criticises or critiques;
the word you're after is criticism.)

>>It's almost a pity he's left...
>>
>>
>Well, I won't miss him personally...
>
No, but his reaction to the language could've been something :P

> But he had explicitly said it's the
>
>
>>Linux of the conlang world (though I guess this would be more
>>appropriate if it were the BSD of the conlang world I guess... Linux
>>isn't forky enough).
>>
>>
>
>;))
>
>
>
>I'm confused too now.
>
Well, I've done my job then :P Just rambling aloud.

>Maybe you should consider a license like the "Artistic
>License" under which Perl is distributed :) .
>
I'd be happy enough for it to be BSD-style. I've seen some sort of study
that suggested the BSD licence was more likely to create forks than the
GPL (for whatever reason). I'd rather have lots of forks of my language
:P (or even siblings to it, anything'd please me).

>> /me wonders off confusing even himself. I've been
>
I knew I had it right the first time.. I kept switching between
'wanders' and 'wonders'. Why is it so confusing? /wand@/ is spelt
<wonder> and /wOnder/ <wander>. Grr, I hate that pair of words in
combination with my knowledge of the IPA.

>>nominated to be on the megapanel at an up-coming SF con. What's the
>>megapanel, I ask. 'Exactly' was the reply.
>>
>>
>?!!! ;))) Is there a Dadaist in the room? ;))))
>
I dunno. Is that particularly Dadaish? Wouldn't Post-Modern be a better
description?

Anyway, back to Widse, the Ygyden alphabet was rejected by the people
adopting the language on the grounds of it was ugly and they'd need to
by new keyboards (no-one said it had to be internally consistent). So
they kept on using the Roman alphabet, which is incredibly boring, so
I'm debating bringing in some Hanzi to spice things up a bit, but they
don't mix terribly well with the Roman alphabet; and anyway, I'd have to
work out whether it'd make more sense to use Kanji, Simplified or
Traditional characters, and I dunno if you can mix them in Unicode, and
you can't exactly type Hanzi on US keyboards. Maybe *after* they adopt
the language and reject the ugly Ygyden alphabet, keyboards become an
irrelevancy and there becomes an elite group of typographers or scribes
and suchlike who decide that they'll spice up the orthography a bit.

Anyway, the first remaining letter of the original root in nouns in
capitalised, simply because I think nouns should be capitalised. Now, in
the word Jaug (drought), the first letter is capitalised, but if we take
the accusative form, being iIjaug /r\iM\o:/*, has the second I
capitalised, because it remains from the y of 'yjagu'. This is exactly
why, should English every be re-spelt, no-one in their right mind would
put me in charge of the process. A normal person would've spelt the word
iIjagu, being incredibly much clearer and historically correct, or
r\iM\o:...

*Pardon? Did someone say regularity? Or even naturalisitic? And anyway,
it's perfectly transparent. The r\ and the beginning means that the next
sound wants to be a vowel, and the Ij-sequence conspire to be /i/ and
joins into a diphthong along with /o/ from the aug//ou/-bit, then,
because triphthongs are illegal, the /M\/ *doesn't* die and after it we
get a /u/, except that similar approximates and vowels refuse to live in
the same area, so the /u/ becomes an /o/, and the two /o/s on each side
of the /M\/ attract each other to themselves, with the /M\/ moving
forward to protect the poor /i/ from the evil /o:/. Now, where did that
rascally /r\/ that did all this come from? Why, /i:/ dipthothised, of
course, into /@i/, and the glide form of /@/ is /r\/, and for whatever
undefined reason, /@i/ became variously (depending on many variables)
either /r\/, /r\i/, or /@/.
One more time, slowly for the man in the back:
/i IdZagu/ > /i:J\aGu/ > /i:J\awu/ > /@iJ\aM\u/  *regularisation!*
/@iJ\oM\u/ > /r\ioM\o/ > /r\iM\o:/.

Pesky little approximates.

Tristan.

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