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Re: Pronunciation of Japanese "j"

From:Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
Date:Sunday, December 7, 2003, 0:08
Quoting Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...>:

> >But unless my memory is failing me completely, finlandssvenska tends to [S] > >for /S/ and [C] for /C/? > > AFAIK they have [s\] and [ts\] respectively, > which makes it kind of weird from a Rikssvenska > perspective.
Kind of weird yes. Hm, I guess my memory is then really failing; I find it hard to believe I'd hear any affricate as [C].
> >(To any foreigner think that seems like a reasonable > >pronuncation, I assure you it's not!) > > Rather it is the traditional IPA notation which > is unreasonable. I have for a long time used > /x/, and recently switched to /s\/. Damn the > Norrlanders with their [S] for /x/.
I tend to stick to the traditional, on the ground that it's the most likely to be familiar to people. But it's indeed quite unreasonable.
> *Note to furriners: the North comprises half of Sweden, > Central Sweden a third of the rest, and the South a little > less than the southernmost sixth. What's in between is > divided between West Gautic and East Gautic dialects. > My dialects are both West Gautic-Norwegian border dialects > while Andreas' is probably Central with some influences > from Gautic.
That would indeed be the case, I guess. People are rarely able to locate me based on by 'lect; you can trust them not to guess Scania, Gotland or Norrland, but I've heard pretty much everything else.
> >Niftily, your description of [s\] is frikken identical to how one of my > German > >teachers described [C], which means I'm probably using it for German /C/. > > Not unlikely, if you are referring to your Swédish > German teachers.
That was one of the Swedish German teachers, yes. (She too has [S] for /C/, btw.) [snip]
> >I do /S/=[x], /C/=[S], /rs/=[s`], /s/=[s_d], assuming I've got the IPA/CXS > >arightly for these. Four different sounds, at any rate. > > I thought so, but if you réally have /C/=[S], /rs/=[s`] > the distinction is razor thin!
Again, I can't swear I've got the IPA right, but they're indeed close. The articulatory difference is basically that the former is apical and the later is sublaminal; the POA is a bit further back for the later, too.
> >Merging /C/ and /rs/ would cause minimal trouble, since the former tends to > be > >found in syllable-initial position and the later in syllable-final, but I > for > >one is not doing it. > ^^ > Surely you mean _am not doing it_?
Indeed. Again, person/number agreement on verbs have always been one of the things I find difficult in foreign languages; today I caught myself saying _ich köntest_, which probably is enough to drive any real German to despair.
> Actually some Gbg kids merge /rs/ with /x/ when trying > to posh up their 'lect, leading to pronounciations > like ["bruxa] for 'brother'!.
The barbarism! Andreas

Replies

Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...>