Re: Pronunciation of Japanese "j"

Quoting Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...>:

> >But unless my memory is failing me completely, finlandssvenska tends to [S]
> >for /S/ and [C] for /C/?
>
> AFAIK they have [s\] and [ts\] respectively,
> which makes it kind of weird from a Rikssvenska
> perspective.
Kind of weird yes. Hm, I guess my memory is then really failing; I find it
hard to believe I'd hear any affricate as [C].

> >(To any foreigner think that seems like a reasonable
> >pronuncation, I assure you it's not!)
>
> Rather it is the traditional IPA notation which
> is unreasonable.  I have for a long time used
> /x/, and recently switched to /s\/.  Damn the
> Norrlanders with their [S] for /x/.

I tend to stick to the traditional, on the ground that it's the most likely to
be familiar to people. But it's indeed quite unreasonable.


> *Note to furriners: the North comprises half of Sweden,
> Central Sweden a third of the rest, and the South a little
> less than the southernmost sixth.  What's in between is
> divided between West Gautic and East Gautic dialects.
> My dialects are both West Gautic-Norwegian border dialects
> while Andreas' is probably Central with some influences
> from Gautic.
That would indeed be the case, I guess. People are rarely able to locate me
based on by 'lect; you can trust them not to guess Scania, Gotland or
Norrland, but I've heard pretty much everything else.

> >Niftily, your description of [s\] is frikken identical to how one of my
> German
> >teachers described [C], which means I'm probably using it for German /C/.
>
> Not unlikely, if you are referring to your Swédish
> German teachers.
That was one of the Swedish German teachers, yes. (She too has [S] for /C/,
btw.)

[snip]
> >I do /S/=[x], /C/=[S], /rs/=[s`], /s/=[s_d], assuming I've got the IPA/CXS
> >arightly for these. Four different sounds, at any rate.
>
> I thought so, but if you réally have /C/=[S], /rs/=[s`]
> the distinction is razor thin!
Again, I can't swear I've got the IPA right, but they're indeed close. The
articulatory difference is basically that the former is apical and the later
is sublaminal; the POA is a bit further back for the later, too.

> >Merging /C/ and /rs/ would cause minimal trouble, since the former tends to
> be
> >found in syllable-initial position and the later in syllable-final, but I
> for
> >one is not doing it.
>       ^^
> Surely you mean _am not doing it_?
Indeed. Again, person/number agreement on verbs have always been one of the
things I find difficult in foreign languages; today I caught myself saying
_ich köntest_, which probably is enough to drive any real German to despair.

> Actually some Gbg kids merge /rs/ with /x/ when trying
> to posh up their 'lect, leading to pronounciations
> like ["bruxa] for 'brother'!.
The barbarism!

                                                   Andreas

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