Re: Pronunciation of Japanese "j"

Quoting Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...>:

> To: Constructed Languages List <CONLANG@...>,
> CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
> Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Japanese "j"
>
> At 12:48 5.12.2003, John Cowan wrote:
>
> >[s\] and [C] are awfully close in my articulation: about the only
> >difference is that the tongue tip is behind the lower teeth in [s\],
> >whereas in [C] it's retracted just a bit.  About like the difference
> >between [t_d] and [t], really.
>
> Yes, in [s\] the tip of the tongue (it should be spelled _tung_! :)
> is behond the lower teeth or lower gum, but in [C] the tip of the
> tung (I told you! :) is actually covering the edges of the lower
> teeth, which prevents the creation of hissy turbulence when the air
> passes over the edges of the lower teeth.
Niftily, your description of [s\] is frikken identical to how one of my German
teachers described [C], which means I'm probably using it for German /C/.
Anyone deeper into German phonetics than me care to comment?

[snip]
> At 10:08 5.12.2003, Andreas Johansson wrote:
>
> >Quoting Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...>:
> >
> > > Mind you, Andreas, that Swedish _tj_ is alveopalatal [s\]
> > > rather than dorsopalatal [C].  Try comparing the way a
> > > German says _Chemie_ with the way you say _kemi_!
> >
> >Let's do a YASDT, shall we? Near as I can tell, I've got [S] for /C/.
>
> Are you from Finland? :)  Actually it does not surprise me at all
> if your _sj_ is [x], but don't you distinguish _rs_ and _tj_?
> If your _tj_ is really [S] the latter distinction must be minimal
> indeed, or perhaps it is the _s_/_rs_ distinction you lack?
> I surely lack it most of the time!
I do /S/=[x], /C/=[S], /rs/=[s`], /s/=[s_d], assuming I've got the IPA/CXS
arightly for these. Four different sounds, at any rate.

Merging /s/ and /rs/ sounds markedly Gothenburgian to my ears ...

Merging /C/ and /rs/ would cause minimal trouble, since the former tends to be
found in syllable-initial position and the later in syllable-final, but I for
one is not doing it.

                                                         Andreas

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