Re: CHAT: F.L.O.E.S.

(Replying to the wrong message because I'm missing a
couple days of emails...)

> Tom Wier:
> > From:    Joe <joe@...>
> > > Douglas Koller, Latin & French wrote:
> > > > Nooooooooooooooooooooooo! /k&rioki/ makes my
> flesh crawl. It's
> > > > /karaoke/, plain and simple. People may think
> I sound affected when I
> > > > say it that way, but I've lived in Japan --
> I've earned it.
> > >
> > > But that's just not English.  The English word
> 'karaoke' is pronounced
> > > [k&rioki] - no two ways about it.  The Japanese
> word 'karaoke' is
> > > pronounce [karaoke].  When using a word in a
> borrowing, the word must
> > > fit the languages phonology(well, unless someone
> really wants to sound,
> > > well, snobby).   In such a language as English,
> it's not neccesary to
> > > change the spelling - English doesn't spell
> phonetically anyway.
> >
> > But what you're saying has nothing to do with
> English
> > phonology, per se.  If we borrowed the word based
> on the
> > Japanese pronunciation, and ran it through
> whatever constitutes
> > our generative phonology, we'd get something like
> [k_hAr@jowkej]
> > (with aspiration, diphthongization and epenthesis
> of the glide
> > [j] as through the native lexicon) or perhaps
> [k_hArowkej],
> > but certainly not [k_h&rijowki] (or for those of
> us raising /&/
> > before /r/, [k_hErijowki]).  That latter
> pronunciation comes
> > from a spelling-pronunciation, and spelling is
> formally
> > independent of language use (in all languages, not
> just English).
It's perfectly okay to pronounce unstressed /ej/ as
/i/ in English. I can't think of any examples OTTOMH
though... (mostly proper nouns I think). As for /&/ vs
/A/ and /i/ vs /ej/ < /e/, that depends on what
dialect did the borrowing. English dialects borrow
from other dialects at least as often as they borrow
from other languages. And finally, if you're going to
whinge about 'karaoke', remember the last two
syllables are a japanification of 'orche(stra)', so I
would appreciate it if you said /karaOr\k@/ (or
whatever /Or\k@/ should be in your American accent),
and anything less is a japanocentric spelling
pronunciation, you pig!

--
Tristan.

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