Re: Schwa and [V]: Learning the IPA

On 6/14/06, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:
> On 6/14/06, Larry Sulky <larrysulky@...> wrote:
> > I think I must have totally missed everybody's points.  I didn't
> > realise that the existence of [V], [U], or [@] in at least some
> > American English dialects was in question. I'm from the American west
> > coast, with influences from the American midwest and Toronto, Ontario.
> >
> > I pronounce "but" and the "a" in "about" as [V].
>
> My question is: how sure are you about that?
I can only be sure of this much: I have /V/, /U/, and /@/. Are those
exactly [V], [U], and [@]? I don't know. I could go to that website
that someone posted here a while back and listen to those vowels to
see how well they match mine. How close will they have to be to be a
match? Is there any way I can assess that?

> I used to think the same
> thing.  But neither my /V/ nor my /@/ is what the IPA calls [V].
Now I'm starting to wonder what you sound like. We live in the same
town, don't we? Let's do lunch.

> The
> core of David's complaint is that Americans generally seem not to have
> [V] there, although of course there must be those who do.
>
> My realization that my /V/ is not IPA [@], either, is what started
> this thread. :)
>
> Do you have [O] in your 'lect, perhaps as the pronunciation of "law"
> or the pre-rhotic part of the first syllable in "order"?  The IPA [V]
> is that same vowel, just unrounded.  It doesn't exist in my 'lect, for
> sure...
If I take the vowel I use in "law" -- which is less rounded than my
pre-rhotic part of "order", but more rounded than my "a" in "father"
and nowhere near so wide as my "a" in "cat" -- and I unround that
vowel thoroughly, I do get to the vowel I use in "but". Could that be
[V]?

--larry

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