Re: Schwa and [V]: Learning the IPA

On 6/15/06, R A Brown <ray@...> wrote:
> Mark J. Reed wrote:
> The second vowel in 'jigsaw' has the same sound as in 'thought' for me,
> namely [O].
Yeah, I don't got none of them.   Nothing at that height except [E], in fact.

> Much the same here except that the second vowel in 'buzzsaw' is [O] for
> us, and not [Q]; also while my northern compatriots have simple vowels
> for /e/ and /o/, we southerns diphthongize the things  :)
Oh, they're definitely diphthongs for me, something like [ei] and
[oU].  But since there's no contrast between non-diphthongal and
diphthongal variants, I use simple vowels for the phonemic
representation - less typing. :)


>  > Herman Miller wrote:
>  >
>  >> It really depends on which IPA site you use for reference. This one
>  >>
>  >> http://wso.williams.edu/~jdowse/ipa.html
Thanks!

> John Vertical wrote:
>  >
>  > This is the site I find the most accurate. That [V] *is* rather
>  > exagerratedly far back,
>
> ? I don't really understand. Is not the IPA [V] the unrounded version of
> the low-mid _back_ vowel? I don't understand how a back vowel can be
> exaggeratedly back.
Yeah.  The so-called "cardinal" vowels - around the perimeter of the
IPA chart - are, *by definition*, at articulatory extremes.  If your
/V/ (or /u/ or /o/ or /Q/, or their oppositely-rounded numbers) isn't
pronounced with your tongue as far back in your mouth as you can get
it while still able to pronounce a vowel, then it ain't IPA [V].

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

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