Re: Schwa and [V]: Learning the IPA

Ray Brown wrote:
>  >> If one examines the 2005 version of the IPA vowel
>  >> chart....
(MJR:)
>  > Huh.  Is the 2005 chart online?
>
> http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/vowels.html
>
Aha, thanks. Is it worth downloading the sound samples?

Otherwise, that chart looks about right IMNSHO. Except _personally_ I'd put
[V] in the central column. However, considering how the trapezoid (after
all, a sort-of model of the mouth) narrows as you go lower, I can see where
my confusion might result. I can also see why I (and others) consider [a] a
central, not front vowel-- it actually aligns vertically with the central
column (well, almost).

Didn't there used to be a symbol for unrounded [U]?

I may have mentioned before-- the chart in our vintage-1965 text had a
special symbol for what is now called [a] = "Boston a in park" according to
the site Larry posted; while "real" [a] e.g. of Spanish/Italian(?), was a
low _central_ vowel, perhaps [6]?. (Or would we say that Span/Ital /a/ is
[A]? {I don't think so--it's too back IME]**). Also IIRC there was a special
symbol for the vowel of Amer. "more" (and perhaps the nucleus of "boy"),
that was midway between [o] and [O]. Someone, I think BP Jonsson, informed
me that those symbols (if they were even canonical) were abandoned at some
point prior 2000 (when I joined Conlang).  It's probably true that cases
like "sound between x and x' " are better handled with diacritics for
lowering/fronting et al. rather than by devising new symbols.

I have to say, this has turned into one of our more interesting and
informative YA(X)PT's :-))))
-----------------
**closer attention to the occasional native French I hear does convince me
that French /a/ is indeed that "Boston a" in many, though not all,
environments. If I'm not mistaken, French used to distinguish the fronted
[a] ("short"?) from a more back [A]-ish sound ("long"?), but it's moribund
if not dead in modern speech. Need to check my vintage 1920s Fr. grammar
:-))