Re: Talarian/Yllurian was Re: Thagojian and Wenetaic (was: Order of letters)

--- Jan van Steenbergen <ijzeren_jan@...>
wrote:
>  --- Padraic Brown wrote:
>
> > Talarian and Yllurian are fairly closely related
> Aryan languages.
>
> What do you mean by "Aryan"?
*Here* linguists would call them "Indo-European";
*there*, philologists call them "Aryan".

> > These things a man must do:
> >    feed the hungry;
> >    feed the cattle;
> >    bring firewood to the holy fire.
> Oh yes, and a few other things, too! But I would
> still be interested to see an
> interlinear translation.
TO HEAR IS TO OBEY, O MASTER:

wárkaççweti saç-he wiros-to:

warka+ççwe+ti sas+he wir+os+to

warka (*werg); in the active, like here, it means "do"
or "work"; in the stative, it means "function".

ççwe (?); an affix which, with an active verb, forms a
necessitive verbal aspect.

ti (*ti); 3s primary ending, found on indicative
verbs.

sas (*so); demonstrative root indicating nearness

he (*kwe); conjunction and discourse particle par
excellence.

wiros (*wir); an animate noun

os; nom. singular ending of the animate declension

to (*to); demonstrative root indicating distance

"Do.must.he these.indeed man.the = For man must truly
do these things".


pâtâto pataxartastan-ca-he

pâtâ+to pata+xarta+st+tan+ca+he

pâtâham (pâta- + tâham; *pâ-t, *dô-); copulative
compound verb - two verbal roots squashed together,
"feed = give food".

to; imperative ending

patar (*pâ-t); inanimate noun, "food"

xartam (*gher-t); durative verb, "yearn for"

st; affix for continuing action aspect

tan; "action" verbal noun stem and ending

ca-he; demonstrative + discourse particele

pâtâ+to pata+xarta+st+tan+ca+he


"Food.give food.yearning.one(DAT).the.and-indeed = for
one, feed the hungering"

pâtâto xowan-can-he;

xowar (*gwou-); inanimate noun ACC plural, "herd,
flock"

can-he; demonstrative + discourse particle

"food.give herds.the.and-indeed = then, feed the
flocks"


ffrencato pûrahamtar-ta pûray-ca sactuça-he.

ffranca+to pûra+hamt+ar+ta pûr+ay+ca sact+uça+he

ffrancam (*bher + n causative); active verb = "bring
(cause to bear)".

pûras (*pûr-); animate noun = "fire"

hamtar (? ianto); inanimate noun = "bundle, faggot",
ACC singular

-ay; DAT singular ending for animate nouns

sactar; inanimate noun = "sacred, holy"

-uça; possessive ending (indicates adjective)

"bring fire.wood.the fireDAT.the holy.and = and what's

more, bring wood to the holy fire"

*****

terdoenó-ari hevergedonin ha:

terdoneþ (terþ + -don-; *tel-, *dhê); liquid stem
common gender noun, NOM pl. (-don- = agent, actor
noun)= man

arþ (*al); adj./pron. = "all, every"

he-; 3pl pronoun conjoined (perfixed) to verb

vergel (*werg); verb = "do"

-don- (*dhê); verbal affix indicating obligation

-in; 3pl ending for conjoined conjugation

"earthlings.all they.do.must"


haþ þeþity ta craema tayos gernentevoe;

haþ (*ho); pronoun indicating nearness, discourse
particle = this

haþ edeverity ta havió;

ed (*ud); prep. "over, onto"

verel (*wer); verb = "watch"

haviþ (*owi); plural of sheep

haþ ademandenity hayos þaceþ egny to detecevó.

ad; prep. "towards"

mandel (*man); verb = "send"

þacel (*sac); verb "bless" + -þ, past ppl.

egny (*igni); DAT/POS fire

ditucevaþ (< Yllemese "lituco, wand"); bundle, faggot

"and this: to.send theDAT blessed fireDAT the bundles
= and send bundles of wood to the sacred fires".

> My alternative translation of the third line in
> Talarian: "Is John Cowan able to bake French
> fries?" :)
:D That's worthy of my masterful and so very refined
renditions of delicate French texts!

Let's see, that would _actually_ be:
"hawehhti/hawehhati-mat
Hahanas Qawwewanatias-ca papan-ta-he? = is
cooking-INTERROG
John Cowan-of-the potatoballs-the-and?"

hawehhti-mat = does he usually cook? [Punctual
habitual] hawehhati-mat = is he cooking? [Durative
present]

Teleranian potato balls are made from potato,
obviously, but it's made into a dough and stuffed with
various things and fried in fat. Around holiday time,
_please_ ask what's in em before you tuck in!

> > If you like, I'll poke around for numbers in all
> > the IE based languages I've got.
>
> By all means do so! You have even more than those
> two? And where are they on the Legratec-scale?
Well, you must count Kerno and her bonny sisters as IE
based, by dint of being Romano-British.

Those I can think of off hand are [I hesitate to give
5s, but I'm using a weighted scale for conlangs, along
the lines of "0 = preliminary sketch only; 5 = there
are (maybe many) details to be worked out, but it's
pretty complete for a conlang". I'd consider English
to be L5G5T5C-; but still incompleat.]:

==Ill Bethisad==
Kerno L4G5T4C5
5 or 6 various L0G1T1C4

==The World==
Aryan* (PIE!) L4G4T3C2
Talarian L3G4T3C4
Yllurian L1G1T1C1
Anglian L3G4T4C4 (I don't have anything on this one
now, and it was mangled Middle English, anyway.)
Mentolatian L0G0T0C0 (V. distantly related to Aryan.)
Iconian (Old and New) L0G0T0C0 (Somewhat Helenic; the
new is Celtic over a Helenic substrate.)
Ladhinat L0G0T1C1 (Latin with some Carthaginian and
Other influence.)
Lucaria L2G2T2C1 (Probably as close as to a creole as
I've ever done.)
Pontian L1G3T1C2 (A major Roman dialect in the East.)
Pretorian L1G3T1C2 (A classical sort of language, one
of literature, etc.)
a dozen various Celtic, Italic L0G0T0C1

* Aryan is *there*'s Proto-Indo-European,
reconstructed by philologists within the World. I
didn't make it up; but scholars like Gerontius Nictio
and Julius P. Cornius sitting around in the great
Universities of the World did. I just came along and
nicked the bits.

==Other==
Example Language iii L5G5T1C- (100% English grammar;
100% Latin words)
Dream Language L1G2T0C- (Welsh/Gaelic sort of mix)

Now, with all the 4s and 5s in there, you'd think I
had a room full of papers or a HDD jammed with notes
and similar. But most of it's in my head, rather than
on paper. Take Kerno for example; pothem mi
yscriver-el san encherchier-els y pharolaves 'n yn
deixtioneir. That's cos there's a lot of "virtual"
lexicon that I _know_ without ever having had to work
out and often without ever having seen it before.
Does that make sense? Like "il parolafs", word; I'd
never even thought of the Kerno word for word before,
but inwardly knew that this is the common one.

> Jan
Padraic.


=====
raps il tenós mathin la ngouerma;
     mays comez le nces il luchets le secund.

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