Re: New Langage "Tyl-Seok": Similar ideas? (Was: Translation pattern of `to have'?)

Hi!

Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...> writes:
> > Oh, yes, right.  I did not think that far.  I *have* to adopt that
> > feature. :-) Simply drop the above word `drive' then and use `car' as
> > a verb whose agent is `man'. :-) (I will run into some problems,
> > though).
> >
>
> Probably, but that's the nice thing about Notya: all the potential problems that
> it structure my cause, well it simply keeps them as they are! :) .
Actually, I had some other kind of semantical agreement, maybe call it
concord, that I have already eliminated.  The above dropping of
`drive' falls almost into the same category.  I'll explain:

To say `now', you would use the Tyl-Seok determiner (a particle),
modified with the first person pronoun: `I DET time'.  There is a verb
(happen-when) placing an event somewhere in time (like `zai4' in
Mandarin, but for time, not place).  Let's consider `I eat lunch now.'
The (almost) longest translation would be (you *could* add another two
particles or so...):

    Tyl-Seok:  I      eat   lunch          happen-when     I DET time.
    Structure: [I.AGT eat.V lunch.PAT].AGT happen-when.V  [I DET time].PAT

There is some semantic concord, however, which I did not like.  It is
clear that after happen-when, a time has to follow.  So `time' need
not be said.  For the full structure, without simply dropping things,
there is particle (NULL) that marks a reference to a left-out thing,
so to remove the concord, it may be used:

    Tyl-Seok: I eat lunch happen-when I DET NULL.

Of course, leaving things out is even better: you even don't have to
say `DET NULL' for the same reason, so `I DET' or shorter `I' is
enough to say `now' here.

    Tyl-Seok: I eat lunch happen-when I.

Furthermore, the `I' in the matrix clause can be inferred from the
sub-ordinate clause:

    Tyl-Seok: I eat lunch happen-when.

(I have to think about this phenomenon.)

And now, your comment comes into play: what is the standard thing to
do with `lunch'?  Of course to `eat' it.  So we can remove more
semantical concord.  I will modify my grammar to allow using `lunch'
as a verb (or alternatively to leave out the verb):

    Tyl-Seok: I      lunch        happen-when.
              [I.AGT lunch.V].AGT happen-when.V

It really meets my ideal much better now! :-)

(In another context, of course, that sentence may be interpreted as
`At that time, I ate lunch', `Then I will eat lunch' or whatever)

In contrast to your intention, I still hope that my language is easily
understandable, but maybe that's an illusion...

How do you render `now', `then', `here', `there'?  I did not yet
read the archives, sorry...

**Henrik

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