Re: interesting websites: topic-prominent languages, Lisu, etc.

Estelachan@AOL.COM wrote:

> I'm curious now: my language Finvaran uses a fairly odd system of markers
> based not on the grade-school-issue subject/direct-object/indirect-object
> division, but on a more precise
> agent/patient/goal/recipient/instrument/etc...... division with suffixes
> designating each.
Sounds like an active system.  It sounds quite similar to what
I have done in my conlang Nur-ellen.  Tell us more, please!

>       Is an "agent-prominent" language considered
> "subject-prominent"? The distinction is usually not a big deal, but comes up
> in passive voice: in English, "The house was painted last week" has "the
> house" as the subject. The Finvaran equivalent has *no* agent.... the house
> is still the patient of the action "paint (past tense)".
Yes, there is no agent; passivization doesn't change this in the least.
Active languages tend to lack passive; at any rate, there is no passive
in Nur-ellen because I feel it doesn't make much sense in a language
which explicitly mark agents rather than "subjects".  If there is no
agent, there is no agent; no reason to treat something like an agent
if it isn't!

Examples in Nur-ellen:

I   sarn      lantent.
the OBJ.stone fall-PAST
"The stone fell."

Ni   i   dring      dringent i   tes.
INST the OBJ.hammer hit-PAST the OBJ.nail
"The hammer hit the nail."

Both sentences have no agent; the hammer in the second example
is not an agent but an *instrument*, as it doesn't act out of itself.

>       I think I actually
> have a subject- and topic-prominent language on my hands; the noun order is
> free since they're all marked, and the first noun is considered the most
> important to the meaning of the sentence ("She went to the party" emphasizes
> "she"; "the party, she went to" emphasizes "party") but the agent is the
> default first noun when you don't want a particular "topic".
This is the same way it is done in Nur-ellen.  Default word order:

He      badent  na i   mert.
AGT.she go-PAST to the OBJ.party

Inverted order to topicalize "the party":

Na i   mert      he      badent.
to the OBJ.party AGT.she go-PAST

(AGT: agentive case, OBJ: objective case)

Does Finvaran do the same?

Jörg.