Re: Relative clauses in Ikanirae Seru

| -----Original Message-----
| From: Estel Telcontar
| Subject: Relative clauses in Ikanirae Seru
|
| (Anyone know about a natlang that marks relative clauses in
| a similar way, using a marker like my |se|?  What do such
| natlangs do about the ambiguity I found?)
| Estel

 Nice ideas. As I was reading it, I kept thinking, "Well, why don't you do
i-j-k," and the next line was you saying, "So I did i-j-k...".
        It was, like, all cosmic and stuff! ;-)

 Anyway, the only language I know of off hand like that would be Esperanto. And
a quick warning, my Esperanto is very rusty.

        The normal subordinating marker in Esperanto is "ke", normally translated as "that".

        Eo: La  knabino ke   piskon   mangxas
        En: The girl    that fish-acc eats   (the girl that eats fish)

 Some of the correlatives can also be used for subordination, like "tiu" (who)
and "tiel" (for this reason).

 Esperanto also has a subject-referent (reflexive?) pronoun, si. The reflexive
pronoun always refers back to the subject of the main clause, even if it is
used in a subordinating clause. Si is an independent pronoun (sin in
accusative); it is not combined with a "normal" pronoun to make "XXX-self".
 There is a reflexing prefix, mem-, which is translated "-self". "Memli" is
"himself", "memvi" is "yourself", etc.
 In the predicate of a sentence or in a subordinating clause, si is used as a
pronoun to indicate "this is the person who is the subject that all this stuff
is about". "Memsi" is a reflexive "himself/herself/myself" that refers back to
the main subject.

        So (if I can do this right):

Eo: la  virino tiu parolis kun  la  viro pri   memsi.....
En: the woman  who spoke   with the man  about herself (reflextive.subject-referent)...

Eo: la  virino tiu parolis kun  la  viro pri   sxi.....
En: the woman  who spoke   with the man  about her (another topical woman)...


        I hope this wasn't confusing or wrong.....

                Mike

______________________________________
Mike Karapcik   *       Tampa, FL
Network Analyst *       USF campus
H. Lee Moffitt Cancer Research Center
ConlangCode: v1.1 CIT !h+ !u cG:M:R:S:G a+ y n30:3
B+++/R:Wic A+ E+ N1 Is/d K ia-:+ p-- s- m o P S----



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