Re: Relative clauses in Ikanirae Seru

En réponse à Karapcik, Mike :

>         The normal subordinating marker in Esperanto is "ke", normally
> translated as "that".
>
>         Eo: La  knabino ke   piskon   mangxas
>         En: The girl    that fish-acc eats   (the girl that eats fish)
Sorry, but according to the Esperanto I learned, this is completely
incorrect! "ke" can only be used with *completive* sentences, i.e.
corresponds to "that" only in cases like "I think *that* it is incorrect".
For relative clauses, Esperanto, like Spanish, uses the interrogative
correlatives:

Eo: La knabino, kiu mangxas piskon (although Eo's word order is free, SVO
is the preferred one).

>         Some of the correlatives can also be used for subordination, like
> "tiu" (who) and "tiel" (for this reason).
"tiu" can only mean "this one". They can only be used when the antecedent
is missing, and the question correlatives must also be present, forming
correlative pairs "tiu, kiu...": "that which", "tiel, kiel...", etc...

>         Esperanto also has a subject-referent (reflexive?) pronoun, si.
> The reflexive pronoun always refers back to the subject of the main
> clause, even if it is used in a subordinating clause. Si is an
> independent pronoun (sin in accusative); it is not combined with a
> "normal" pronoun to make "XXX-self".
>         There is a reflexing prefix, mem-, which is translated "-self".
> "Memli" is "himself", "memvi" is "yourself", etc.
I've never ever seen those ones used. The Esperanto you're talking about is
a new dialect for me! And yet I've read and heard Esperanto used by quite a
lot of people. "Mem" is indeed used, but it's an adverb. You say "vi mem",
"li mem", etc...

>         In the predicate of a sentence or in a subordinating clause, si
> is used as a pronoun to indicate "this is the person who is the subject
> that all this stuff is about". "Memsi" is a reflexive
> "himself/herself/myself" that refers back to the main subject.
>
>         So (if I can do this right):
>
>Eo: la  virino tiu parolis kun  la  viro pri   memsi.....
>En: the woman  who spoke   with the man  about herself
>(reflextive.subject-referent)...
Completely incorrect. "Tiu" cannot be used this way. You must use "kiu" for
this function. A correct sentence is:
La virino kiu parolis kun la viro pri si mem..." (and "mem" is optional here)

>Eo: la  virino tiu parolis kun  la  viro pri   sxi.....
>En: the woman  who spoke   with the man  about her (another topical woman)...
Apart from "tiu" which must of course be "kiu", this is correct.


>         I hope this wasn't confusing or wrong.....
Well, unfortunately a lot of it was incorrect. I think you need to revise
your use of "ke" and of the correlatives :))) .


Christophe Grandsire.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

You need a straight mind to invent a twisted conlang.