Re: Reinventing NATLANGs

 

Some terminology:

-        Hochdeutsch = Standard Written German;

 

-        Plattdeutsch = Northern and north-Central German dialects that
haven’t or have only partially undergone the 2nd German consonant shift; A
more “official” designation <Niederdeutsch> is used as well.

 

-        Oberdeutsch: the collection of dialects, or the dialect continuum
that has completely or for the most part undergone the 2nd German consonant
shift: Allemannic (Allemannisch, Schwäbisch), Bavarian
(Bairisch-Österreichisch), Upper Franconian (Oberfränkisch); moribund:
Cimbrian (Zimbrisch), Gottschee-Carinthian;

 

-        Mitteldeutsch: The central “belt” of dialects that have partially
undergone the 2nd German consonant shift: Palatinate (Pfälzisch), Hessian
(Hessisch), Rhine-Franconian (Rheinfränkisch), Moselle-Franconian
(Moselfränkisch), Saxon (Sächsisch), Thuringian (Thüringisch), moribund:
Silesian (Schlesisch), Upper East Prussian (Hochpreußisch);

 

-        Niederdeutsch: Northern German dialects that haven’t or have only
partially undergone the 2nd German consonant shift: East Frisian Low Saxon
(Ostfriesisch), Northern Low Saxon (Nordniedersächsisch), Eastfalian
(Ostfälisch), Westfalian (Westfälisch), Brandenburgian (Brandenburgisch),
Mecklenburgian (Mecklenburgisch), Pommeranian (Pommersch), (Alt-Ostelbisch);
moribund: Niederpreußisch; 

 

----------------------------------      



Althochdeutsch = Old High German

Mittelhochdeutsch = Middle High German

Neuhochdeutsch = Modern High German (Standard German)

 

Altsächsisch = Old Saxon

Mittelniederdeutsch = Middle Low German (language of the “Hanse”)

Neuniederdeutsch = Modern Low German dialects

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Wesley Parish

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:33, Carsten Becker wrote:

> From: "Michael Adams" <abrigon@...>
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 10:39 PM
> 
> > Body of literature helps, as seen by Martin Luthers
> > translating
> > the Bible into HochDeutsch, and then with Gutebburgs
> > printers help, spread it around..
> 
> Misconcepton here: Luther didn't translate the bible into
> _Hochdeutsch_ but into German in general -- he took features
> from a number of dialects (as far as I know, don't quote me
> on that!) and created some kind of "normalized" German. The
> problem is that the German speaking area is a continuum of
> dialects more or less mutually intelligible, in Luther's
> times this was even more the case than today, though, where
> we have regiolects rather than local dialects due to the
> omnipresence of _Hochdeutsch_. The actually correct term for
> what is commonly known as 'Hochdeutsch' should be
> _Standarddeutsch_, since historically, 'Hochdeutsch' refers
> to the Upper German dialects such as the Bavarian, Frankish
> and Allemanic. Having lived in Saxony and Thuringia, Luther
 

Saxony - wouldn't that be the kingdom now comprising most of the federal
state 

of Saxony-Anhalt?  Thuringia was - to some degree, if I understand the 

history of German dialects properly - where Plattduutsch was spoken.  That 

was on the east side of Ostphalia and bordered on Bohemia?

> thus spoke neither a Lower German nor Upper German dialect
> (which are not mutually intelligible!) but a Middle German
> one, and Middle German is -- well -- a 'middle' thing. As
 

Mittelhochdeutsch was the language I was taught in High School.  So it would


be a "Standarddeutsch" with a predominance of "Hochdeutsch" features?  If it


had been the other way around, I expect it would've been named 

"Mittelplattdeutsch" - which would be the standardized form of the languages


spoken from Lower Saxony to Gronigen.

> for Luther and Hochdeutsch -- by his translation of the
> Bible into German, he levelled the way for what later
> emerged into the current standard. Even in Goethe's and
> Schiller's time, there was no Standard Language, but the
> so-called _Bühnensprache_ (stage language) caught on more
> and more as well outside of theatres.
 

Courtesy of Goethe and Schiller, no doubt.  Like Shakespeare's language
became 

the basis for written English, along with the language of the Bible 

translation authorized by King James for use in churches.

> 
> Carsten
> 
> And the guy with the types is known as _Johannes Gutenberg_
> /jo.'hAn@s 'gu:tn=.bE6k/.
> 
> --
> "Miranayam kepauarà naranoaris." (Kalvin nay Hobbes)
> Pinena, Rayam 20, 2315 ya 06:43:33 pd
 

-- 

Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish

-------------

Mau ki ana, he aha te mea nui?

You ask, "What is the most important thing?"

Maku ki ana, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.

I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

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