Re: Help on Verbs...

Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 27/10/99 04:40:53  , Doug a =E9crit :

> Finally, there is voice.  Voice tells you who's acting on who.  Most of th=
e
>  sentences in this post are in active voice where the subject acts on the
>  object.  There is also the passive, a voice I was taught to avoid, but=20
don't
>  as you can see from the earlier part of this sentence (was taught is
>  passive).  In passive, the surface subject is actually being acted upon.
>  (Compare he hit the boy [active] to the boy was hit by the boy [passive])
>  There is a middle voice (usually translated like I get myself taught, or
>  something like that), a causative voice (I cause to learn), and an
>  antipassive voice, which is difficult to explain, and would probably only
>  occur if you have an ergative language (if you don't know what that means=
,
>  don't worry).  There may be more voices, but I haven't heard of any other=
s.
>  And not all languages differentiate into all this voices (English doesn't=
).

but, but, but... you forget the mediopassive voice !
we had excellent mutual stukaing and schrapnelling
arguments on this list rounding up the differences
between mediopassive and middle voice.

plus there are direct and indirect passives :
the lesson is taught / the boy is taught

AFMC, i have problems to use the official terminology.
like many of us i derive verbs from nouns
(of state, instrument, result, process, agent, patient, etc.).

so could you tell in which voices are the following verbs ?
(sorry to take my own conlang as example, but that's the one
i know best)

oonga-boonga voice (to be/to become) :

paku : yellow colour > pakupaku : to be yellow (on something)
nose : blade > nosenose : to cut (something) like a blade does
poco : lesson > pocopoco : to be a lesson for (=3D to let oneself be learned=
 by)
lata : hole > latalata : to be a hole (on/in)
nuli : powder > nulinuli : to be/become powder
sane : rising > sanesane : to rise (over)

me-get-it voice (to have/to get) :

apaku : to have yellow colour on
opoco : to learn (something) as a lesson
alata : to have a hole on/in oneself
asane : to raise (one's hand)

factive/transformative/applicative voice (to make/to apply) :

papaku : to make something yellow (=3D to put yellow colour on)
nonose : to cut something with a blade (=3D to apply a cutting blade on)
popoco : to teach someone
lalata : to make a hole in/on
nunuli : to make powder
sasane : to raise something (=3D to set in the state of rising)


mathias