Re: Looking for a case: counting

En réponse à Philippe Caquant :


>To me, that should not be a case. Cases apply to noun
>concepts. I understand the expression 'many times' as
>if it was an temporal adverb, 'manitimes', modifying
>the sens of the verb 'threw'.
"time" ("fois" in French) *is* a noun, whether you like it or not. 
Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to add the adjective "many" to it ("many 
times" is no less nominal than "many people"). So it's not surprising that 
someone should ask which case to apply to give it the iterative meaning. It 
may be adverbial in meaning, but so are any noun phrases in a local, 
temporal or instrumental case. "With a hammer" is an adverbial concept in 
the sentence "I hit him with a hammer" (it modifies the sense of the verb 
"hit"). Does it make the noun phrase "a hammer" less nominal? No. It's just 
a noun phrase in the instrumental. In the same way, "many times" as in "I 
threw the ball many times" is a noun phrase with some kind of temporal 
case. It's only the fact that this temporal case is expressed by nothing in 
English as in French that makes you think that "many times" is more 
"adverbial" than "with a hammer". It's not, it's just the tree hiding the 
forest.

Actually, most, if not all, adverbs in French or English are derived from 
noun phrases. Even the formation in -ly in English and -ment in French are 
derived from former noun phrases. So there's really no such thing as an 
"adverbial" concept not related to nominal concepts. "Adverbs" are just 
noun phrases in some local, temporal, instrumental (or other such cases) 
case. Once again, you are blinded by your native tongue, and cannot see 
further, thus making comments that have no use for the questions asked.

Christophe Grandsire.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

You need a straight mind to invent a twisted conlang. 

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