Re: Amanda's sentences as translation exercise

On Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 02:15:56PM +0200, Remi Villatel wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I feel there has been a lack of conlanging on the list lately, so I
> propose Amanda's 10 sentences as a translation exercise.
Good idea! Очень хорошо!

I will do the following in Tatari Faran, and also in Russian as an
exercise (native speakers feel free to correct my bad grammar, bad
choice of words, etc.).


>  1. This is my child.
	tara' sa  jibin huun.
	3sp   CVY child 1sp:GEN
	He is my child.
	Это моя ребёнка.

TF prefers to use a pronoun here, rather than a demonstrative.


>  2. His name is Peter.
	minein    sa  pitira.
	name:MASC CVY Peter
	(His) name is Peter.
	Его зовут Пётр.

The name is greatly butchered 'cos /r/ cannot end a word. :-)

Also, when referring to names in TF, pronouns are usually omitted. Whose
name is being referred to is inferred from context. In this case,
assuming that this follows sentence (1), the pronoun _tara'_ would be
omitted.


>  3. I love him.
	huu ka  tsi'ai tara' na  jinai.
	1sp ORG love   3sp   RCP COMPL
	I love him.
	Я люблю его.


>  4. The baby cannot speak (yet).
	nabin tara' ka  tsana be  tatari   so.
	baby  DEM   ORG speak not language CVY
	That baby/He, the baby, doesn't speak (a) language (yet).
	Он ещё не можешь говорить.

TF's pronoun _tara'_ doubles as a demonstrative, so _nabin tara' ka_
could be understood either as "that baby", or "he, the baby", referring
to the child mentioned previously. _tsana tatari so_ ("speak (a)
language") is an idiom for a child being able to articulate words. The
negation is used here to indicate that the child hasn't learned to speak
yet.


>  5. But he can sit without help.
	tara' sa  paka bumei epan sahu na  anan.
	3sp   CVY but  sit   able self RCP up:COMPL
	But he can sit up (by) himself.
	Lit. But he can seat himself up.
	А он можешь преподняться(?).

Few points of interest here:
- the conjunction _paka_ (but) appears after the topic NP, as is the
  convention in TF.
- _epan_ is an adverb of manner indicating possibility/ability.
- _bumei sahu na_ (lit. "to seat oneself") is an idiom for sitting up.
- The complement _anan_ is not the usual one for _bumei_. The usual
  complement _utu'_ implies sitting down from a standing posture; here
  however _anan_ (up) is used for sitting up from a lying posture.


>  6. His eyes are blue.
	tsinta tara'an sei firat fai.
	eye    3sp:GEN CVY blue  COMPL
	His eyes (eye) are (is) blue.
	Он синеглазый.

TF can distinguish between singular & plural explicitly, but plural
marking is optional, as here.


>  7. He desires excessively that I should play with him.
	tara' ka  uenai titi ihuu     itsaijin ia.
	3sp   ORG want  much XCVY:1sp CVY:play COMPL
	He wants to play with me (or me to play with him) very much.
	Lit. He wants very much (with) me to play.
	(This is beyond my grasp of Russian...)

The arguments to the subordinative verb _itsaijin_ are conveyant, both
the explicit NP _ihuu_ ("I") and the implicit topic NP ("he"). So it can
be understood either way: He wants me to play with him, or He wants to
play with me.


>  8. Holding Baby is so nice!
	huu ka  uenai ninabin   baman   ia.
	1sp ORG like  XRCP:baby hug:RCP COMPL
	I want/like to hug (hold) the baby.

Using a gerund phrase here ("holding Baby") is a bit cumbersome in TF.
An explicit phrasing, as shown here, is preferred. The verb _bama_
(subordinative _baman_) means "to hug", and is used w.r.t. holding
babies. Using one of the verbs of holding (_arap_, to pick up, or
_bana_, to carry) seems too impersonal here. Perhaps _bana_ would be
appropriate of (an uncaring) maid holding on to the baby while Mom is
busy doing something else, but in this context _bama_ is much more
suitable.


>  9. The baby and I went for a walk down the street today.
	huu sa  tapa sifan kana iti  tatis  dusa  nabin ibi  bata.
	1sp CVY walk day   now  when street along baby  with COMPL
	I walked today (lit. this afternoon) along the street with the
	baby.
	Сегодня я и ребёнка погуляем(?).

_sifan kana_ (lit. afternoon now, i.e., this afternoon), is an idiom for
"today". _iti_ is a temporal postposition indicating the time of the
event.

_dusa_ is a postposition meaning "alongside" or "along".

The postposition _ibi_ is one of a curious pair of postpositions
implying accompaniment. _ibi_ implies accompaniment with the topic NP,
whereas the other of the pair, _iki_, implies accompaniment with a
non-topic NP.


> 10. Although he can take several steps in a row while I hold his
> hands, I carried him on our walk.
[...]

	tara' sa  tapa epan pata' pita dusa,
	3sp   CVY walk able foot  few  along
	He can walk a few steps (lit. walk along a few feet),
	(This is way beyond my grasp of Russian...)

	katai era huu ka  pika tara'an no,
	grasp if  1sp ORG hand 3sp:GEN RCP
	if I grasp his hand(s),

	tapa'i   itatis      dusa  ipai paka bama  huu na
	walk:INF XCVY:street along when but  carry 1sp RCP
	but when walking along the street I carried (hugged)

	tara' sa  jinai.
	3sp   CVY COMPL
	him.

A few points of interest here:
- _pata'_ means foot or paw; _pata' dusa_ is an idiom for making steps
  when walking. Hence, _pata' pita dusa_ - along a few steps.
- again, the number of _pika tara'an no_ is ambiguous, and could refer
  to either one hand or both.


T

--
There are four kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Replies