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Re: Amanda's sentences as translation exercise

From:H. S. Teoh <hsteoh@...>
Date:Saturday, October 21, 2006, 16:56
On Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 02:15:56PM +0200, Remi Villatel wrote:
> Hi List, > > I feel there has been a lack of conlanging on the list lately, so I > propose Amanda's 10 sentences as a translation exercise.
Good idea! Очень хорошо! I will do the following in Tatari Faran, and also in Russian as an exercise (native speakers feel free to correct my bad grammar, bad choice of words, etc.).
> 1. This is my child.
tara' sa jibin huun. 3sp CVY child 1sp:GEN He is my child. Это моя ребёнка. TF prefers to use a pronoun here, rather than a demonstrative.
> 2. His name is Peter.
minein sa pitira. name:MASC CVY Peter (His) name is Peter. Его зовут Пётр. The name is greatly butchered 'cos /r/ cannot end a word. :-) Also, when referring to names in TF, pronouns are usually omitted. Whose name is being referred to is inferred from context. In this case, assuming that this follows sentence (1), the pronoun _tara'_ would be omitted.
> 3. I love him.
huu ka tsi'ai tara' na jinai. 1sp ORG love 3sp RCP COMPL I love him. Я люблю его.
> 4. The baby cannot speak (yet).
nabin tara' ka tsana be tatari so. baby DEM ORG speak not language CVY That baby/He, the baby, doesn't speak (a) language (yet). Он ещё не можешь говорить. TF's pronoun _tara'_ doubles as a demonstrative, so _nabin tara' ka_ could be understood either as "that baby", or "he, the baby", referring to the child mentioned previously. _tsana tatari so_ ("speak (a) language") is an idiom for a child being able to articulate words. The negation is used here to indicate that the child hasn't learned to speak yet.
> 5. But he can sit without help.
tara' sa paka bumei epan sahu na anan. 3sp CVY but sit able self RCP up:COMPL But he can sit up (by) himself. Lit. But he can seat himself up. А он можешь преподняться(?). Few points of interest here: - the conjunction _paka_ (but) appears after the topic NP, as is the convention in TF. - _epan_ is an adverb of manner indicating possibility/ability. - _bumei sahu na_ (lit. "to seat oneself") is an idiom for sitting up. - The complement _anan_ is not the usual one for _bumei_. The usual complement _utu'_ implies sitting down from a standing posture; here however _anan_ (up) is used for sitting up from a lying posture.
> 6. His eyes are blue.
tsinta tara'an sei firat fai. eye 3sp:GEN CVY blue COMPL His eyes (eye) are (is) blue. Он синеглазый. TF can distinguish between singular & plural explicitly, but plural marking is optional, as here.
> 7. He desires excessively that I should play with him.
tara' ka uenai titi ihuu itsaijin ia. 3sp ORG want much XCVY:1sp CVY:play COMPL He wants to play with me (or me to play with him) very much. Lit. He wants very much (with) me to play. (This is beyond my grasp of Russian...) The arguments to the subordinative verb _itsaijin_ are conveyant, both the explicit NP _ihuu_ ("I") and the implicit topic NP ("he"). So it can be understood either way: He wants me to play with him, or He wants to play with me.
> 8. Holding Baby is so nice!
huu ka uenai ninabin baman ia. 1sp ORG like XRCP:baby hug:RCP COMPL I want/like to hug (hold) the baby. Using a gerund phrase here ("holding Baby") is a bit cumbersome in TF. An explicit phrasing, as shown here, is preferred. The verb _bama_ (subordinative _baman_) means "to hug", and is used w.r.t. holding babies. Using one of the verbs of holding (_arap_, to pick up, or _bana_, to carry) seems too impersonal here. Perhaps _bana_ would be appropriate of (an uncaring) maid holding on to the baby while Mom is busy doing something else, but in this context _bama_ is much more suitable.
> 9. The baby and I went for a walk down the street today.
huu sa tapa sifan kana iti tatis dusa nabin ibi bata. 1sp CVY walk day now when street along baby with COMPL I walked today (lit. this afternoon) along the street with the baby. Сегодня я и ребёнка погуляем(?). _sifan kana_ (lit. afternoon now, i.e., this afternoon), is an idiom for "today". _iti_ is a temporal postposition indicating the time of the event. _dusa_ is a postposition meaning "alongside" or "along". The postposition _ibi_ is one of a curious pair of postpositions implying accompaniment. _ibi_ implies accompaniment with the topic NP, whereas the other of the pair, _iki_, implies accompaniment with a non-topic NP.
> 10. Although he can take several steps in a row while I hold his > hands, I carried him on our walk.
[...] tara' sa tapa epan pata' pita dusa, 3sp CVY walk able foot few along He can walk a few steps (lit. walk along a few feet), (This is way beyond my grasp of Russian...) katai era huu ka pika tara'an no, grasp if 1sp ORG hand 3sp:GEN RCP if I grasp his hand(s), tapa'i itatis dusa ipai paka bama huu na walk:INF XCVY:street along when but carry 1sp RCP but when walking along the street I carried (hugged) tara' sa jinai. 3sp CVY COMPL him. A few points of interest here: - _pata'_ means foot or paw; _pata' dusa_ is an idiom for making steps when walking. Hence, _pata' pita dusa_ - along a few steps. - again, the number of _pika tara'an no_ is ambiguous, and could refer to either one hand or both. T -- There are four kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.


Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
Roger Mills <rfmilly@...>