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Re: Colloquial German, experiencers and the construct state

From:Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
Date:Friday, August 19, 2005, 11:49
Quoting Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>:

> Hi! > > Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> writes: > > Quoting Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>: > > > > > Yes, and it seems to have changed. 'des Mannes Haus' is also ok, but > > > archaic. > > > > It's sometimes useful if you don't recall the gender of the possessee. :) > > > > But it only seems to be used with names and name-like things (eg, _Mutters > > Geburtstag_) in speech. > > Right, that's not archaic at all! :-) > > But it is still a bit different. Note that with an article, the > *real* genitive is used while 'Mutters' is a different form with a > suffixed -s: > > Mutters Geburtstag (normal register) - mum's/mother's birthday > der Mutter Geburtstag (archaic) - the mother's birthday > Geburtstag der Mutter (written language) - the mother's birthday > > Hmm, maybe I'd say: > Mamas Geburtstag (even more normal) - mum's birthday > > I just noticed now that this -s is introduced there. Very interesting!
That's what I meant with "name-like"; _Mutter_ here is used more like a name than a normal noun. It's one of the very few instances of a non-personal name feminine gets a genitive -s. (Altho these "namey" versions of words for mother and father seem to be all over the place in European languages (and, I'm told, at least in Arabic too), I don't use them much myself. I'm more inclined to say _das Geburtstag meiner Mutter_ than _Mutters Geburtstag_, or in Swedish _min mammas födelsedag_ than _mammas födelsedag_. Hell, I'll even say _min mors födelsedag_ in ordinary conversation, which to most people sounds formal/archaic to the point of hostility. It's just a quirk of mine. Oh, and _födelsedag_ is normally pronounced as _fölseda(g)_.) Andreas