Re: Colloquial German, experiencers and the construct state
|From:||Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>|
|Date:||Friday, August 19, 2005, 11:49|
Quoting Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>:
> Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> writes:
> > Quoting Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>:
> > > Yes, and it seems to have changed. 'des Mannes Haus' is also ok, but
> > > archaic.
> > It's sometimes useful if you don't recall the gender of the possessee. :)
> > But it only seems to be used with names and name-like things (eg, _Mutters
> > Geburtstag_) in speech.
> Right, that's not archaic at all! :-)
> But it is still a bit different. Note that with an article, the
> *real* genitive is used while 'Mutters' is a different form with a
> suffixed -s:
> Mutters Geburtstag (normal register) - mum's/mother's birthday
> der Mutter Geburtstag (archaic) - the mother's birthday
> Geburtstag der Mutter (written language) - the mother's birthday
> Hmm, maybe I'd say:
> Mamas Geburtstag (even more normal) - mum's birthday
> I just noticed now that this -s is introduced there. Very interesting!
That's what I meant with "name-like"; _Mutter_ here is used more like a name
than a normal noun. It's one of the very few instances of a non-personal name
feminine gets a genitive -s.
(Altho these "namey" versions of words for mother and father seem to be all over
the place in European languages (and, I'm told, at least in Arabic too), I don't
use them much myself. I'm more inclined to say _das Geburtstag meiner Mutter_
than _Mutters Geburtstag_, or in Swedish _min mammas födelsedag_ than _mammas
födelsedag_. Hell, I'll even say _min mors födelsedag_ in ordinary
conversation, which to most people sounds formal/archaic to the point of
hostility. It's just a quirk of mine. Oh, and _födelsedag_ is normally
pronounced as _fölseda(g)_.)