Re: Colloquial German, experiencers and the construct state

Quoting Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>:

> Hi!
>
> Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> writes:
> > Quoting Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>:
> >
> > > Yes, and it seems to have changed.  'des Mannes Haus' is also ok, but
> > > archaic.
> >
> > It's sometimes useful if you don't recall the gender of the possessee. :)
> >
> > But it only seems to be used with names and name-like things (eg, _Mutters
> > Geburtstag_) in speech.
>
> Right, that's not archaic at all! :-)
>
> But it is still a bit different.  Note that with an article, the
> *real* genitive is used while 'Mutters' is a different form with a
> suffixed -s:
>
>    Mutters Geburtstag     (normal register)  -  mum's/mother's birthday
>    der Mutter Geburtstag  (archaic)          -  the mother's birthday
>    Geburtstag der Mutter  (written language) -  the mother's birthday
>
> Hmm, maybe I'd say:
>    Mamas Geburtstag       (even more normal) -  mum's birthday
>
> I just noticed now that this -s is introduced there.  Very interesting!
That's what I meant with "name-like"; _Mutter_ here is used more like a name
than a normal noun. It's one of the very few instances of a non-personal name
feminine gets a genitive -s.

(Altho these "namey" versions of words for mother and father seem to be all over
the place in European languages (and, I'm told, at least in Arabic too), I don't
use them much myself. I'm more inclined to say _das Geburtstag meiner Mutter_
than _Mutters Geburtstag_, or in Swedish _min mammas födelsedag_ than _mammas
födelsedag_. Hell, I'll even say _min mors födelsedag_ in ordinary
conversation, which to most people sounds formal/archaic to the point of
hostility. It's just a quirk of mine. Oh, and _födelsedag_ is normally
pronounced as _fölseda(g)_.)

                                                    Andreas