Re: Tagalog & trigger idea: I'd like comments. :)
|From:||Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>|
|Date:||Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 4:25|
"H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh@...> writes:
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2004 at 10:44:48PM +0100, Henrik Theiling wrote:
> > giver -> nominative: der Mann
> > recipient -> dative: der Frau
> > patient -> accusative: die Blume
> Interesting, I didn't think of this aspect of it. But, Tatari Faran
> does not have passives.
Yes, but I only gave them for comparison to English. Maybe I should've
left them out to compare to Tatari Faran. :-)
> The fronted NP also takes a "nominative" role
> in a sense. This doesn't quite show in these examples because a
> relatively simple sentence is involved; but it becomes clearer if you
> tack on several clauses together:
> diru nei kira firasa sei kiran ka esan, henan dei niba' tara' ka tsum.
> "The girl was given flowers by the young man, and he kissed [her]."
> firasa sei kira kiran ka diru nei esan, henan dei niba' tara' ka tsum.
> "The flowers were given to the girl by the young man, and he kissed
> [the flowers]."
This is clearly different from German, yes. (I would have been
surprised if you had accidentally found German's structure. :-)))
But Tatari Faran is not pro-drop, is it? Then things would be
different, because I'd expect any elided constituent to refer to
whatever is most sensible. And the focus is sensible. :-) Then the
whole structure would work on semantic level instead of on syntactic
elipsis level as in 'I carried a vase and fell.' But from how you
describe them, I suppose you mean the above structures are purely
> This is where a fundamental difference occurs: the case markings of
> the NP's in Tatari Faran cannot change without also changing the
> factual content of the sentence. There is no such thing as passive
> verbs in TF. If you change the marking of _diru_ to originative, the
> girl becomes the giver rather than the recipient.
Sorry, the passive voice examples where superfluous in my posting.
> Hmm OK, so what Tatari Faran has isn't triggers after all. :-)
> But I don't think you can say Tatari Faran is accusative.
Definitely not. I would not dare to. :-)
> The case assignments are purely semantically-based, and you can't
> change the case of an NP without also changing its semantic
Right. I'd also hesitate to call is split-S, however, because you
have unique case names. :-)