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Re: Tagalog & trigger idea: I'd like comments. :)

From:Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>
Date:Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 4:25

"H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh@...> writes:
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2004 at 10:44:48PM +0100, Henrik Theiling wrote: >... > > giver -> nominative: der Mann > > recipient -> dative: der Frau > > patient -> accusative: die Blume > > Interesting, I didn't think of this aspect of it. But, Tatari Faran > does not have passives.
Yes, but I only gave them for comparison to English. Maybe I should've left them out to compare to Tatari Faran. :-)
> The fronted NP also takes a "nominative" role > in a sense. This doesn't quite show in these examples because a > relatively simple sentence is involved; but it becomes clearer if you > tack on several clauses together: > > diru nei kira firasa sei kiran ka esan, henan dei niba' tara' ka tsum. > "The girl was given flowers by the young man, and he kissed [her]." > > firasa sei kira kiran ka diru nei esan, henan dei niba' tara' ka tsum. > "The flowers were given to the girl by the young man, and he kissed > [the flowers]." >...
This is clearly different from German, yes. (I would have been surprised if you had accidentally found German's structure. :-))) But Tatari Faran is not pro-drop, is it? Then things would be different, because I'd expect any elided constituent to refer to whatever is most sensible. And the focus is sensible. :-) Then the whole structure would work on semantic level instead of on syntactic elipsis level as in 'I carried a vase and fell.' But from how you describe them, I suppose you mean the above structures are purely syntactical.
>... > This is where a fundamental difference occurs: the case markings of > the NP's in Tatari Faran cannot change without also changing the > factual content of the sentence. There is no such thing as passive > verbs in TF. If you change the marking of _diru_ to originative, the > girl becomes the giver rather than the recipient.
Sorry, the passive voice examples where superfluous in my posting.
> Hmm OK, so what Tatari Faran has isn't triggers after all. :-)
HAHA! :-)
> But I don't think you can say Tatari Faran is accusative.
Definitely not. I would not dare to. :-)
> The case assignments are purely semantically-based, and you can't > change the case of an NP without also changing its semantic > role.
Right. I'd also hesitate to call is split-S, however, because you have unique case names. :-) **Henrik


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