Re: Case's Name

>Max wrote:
>
> > For Vbazi, to find a way to express meanings like "orange juice",  >
>"milk coffee", or "apple pie", I've invented a preposition that is a  >
>"preposition of composition" that works like "juice PREP orange" and  >
>"coffee PREP milk".
>
>You realize you have three different types of relations there:
>
>(1) orange juice is juice comprised entirely of oranges
>(2) milk coffee is coffee with milk added
>(3) apple pie is something that prominently features (but does not
>entirely consist of) apples
>
>I think it would be strange to have one preposition to do all three
>of these.  If you flip it and make "juice orange" and "pie apple", then
>you'd get something very much like French à, wouldn't you?
Seconded.

It seems to me that (2) is most likely to receive a different structure than
the others. "Coffee" is a well-defined dish all by itself, but "juice" and
"pie" are not. You can have "plain coffee", but not "plain juice" or "plain
pie"; no, it's always orange, papaya, etc juice. Likewise, altho you *could*
theoretically bake an empty pie crust and call it "plain pie", it's
practically always "something pie" - be it apple, kidney, or
crowberry-bogblueberry.


>Anyway, for (1), I'd call that case the comprisative (I actually use
>that case in Zhyler), where X is comprised entirely of Y (well, I
>guess you'd have to switch the arguments).
>
>For (2), you could just use an instrumental, or something.
>
>For (3), you could use a comprisative, or an instrumental.
"Comprisative" sounds like quite a limited case; IMO that meaning would be
better suited to be conveyed by the preposition. You could maybe even use
that same preposition for these and all similar constructions, if its
definition were wide enough (not just "comprizing of" but also "contains
some amount of")

Case-wise, I would just use genetive for 1 and 3. But for 2... an
instrumental sounds odd (unless I've understood the usage of the case
completely wrong.) If you want something more obscure than just a
run-off-the-mill genetive here, try a comitative case ("in the precence of,
accompanied with").
...
Rechecking the Vbazi grammar, I see that you already have a comitative, tho
as a verbalizer; but that would be one solution anyway. "Coffee
is-together-with-milk" sounds neat enough to me.

John Vertical

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