Re: New Survey: Celtic Conlangs (and other lunatic pursuits)

Quoting Sally Caves <scaves@...>:
> PART I.  FOR CELTIC CONLANGERS:
>
> Have you based your conlang(s) wholly or partially on a Celtic language?
> If so, on which?  or combined with which?
   Yes, On Old Irish, Middle and Modern Welsh, Cornish, and proto-Celtic.

> What is your name and what do you call your conlang(s)?
   Aidan Grey, Taalen (based on everything), Aelya (mostly Irish).

> When did you start it/them?
  Taalen: about a year ago (2001), Aelya, years and years ago.

> Are you still working with it/them or have you abandoned it or them?
>
   Still working with Taalen, abandoned Aelya.

> What Celtic features have you borrowed?  What is the structure of your
> language?  Be specific.
>
  Mutations, conjugated prepositions, Aelya had the VSO, and Taalen may, I keep
changing my mind. Vocab is often inspired or derived from the Celtic langs
(often by simply reversing the Celtic word), e.g. T. rag'h 'carry' from a
suppletive form of beir in OI. Infixed objects (as in OI) have a minimal role
as well. Kept OI absolute and conjunct conjugations. Periphrastic phrases,
particularly with prepositions (i.e. emotions being "on" someone).


> What innovations did you introduce?  (new constructions, perhaps a new
> script, etc.)
>
   New script, simplification of gender system on a new animacy basis.
Simplified verb tenses, and new markers. Phonology is simplified, and thus
mutation. New romoanization. Use of conjunct forms as relatives. No adjectives,
only stative verbs.


> What features of Celtic languages (or a particular Celtic language)
> initially inspired or intrigued you?
   Mutations, phonology (of welsh), verbal system (OI).

> Was this a draw for you as well in
> choosing Celtic as a model?
  Partly. I already loved the langs, and it just seemed logical to build on
them in my own langs.


> On the other hand, perhaps the Celtic structures, their VSO, their
> paraphrastics, their initial mutations, their spelling conventions, their
> general strangeness caught your fancy, not necessarily their "beauty" or
> "romance."  Comment?
>
  For me it's equal parts attraction to sound, and attraction to weirdness.


> How many of you are also scholars of Celtic languages?   Scholars of other
> languages?
>
  Me. On both counts. In grad school studying Celtic Lang and Lit, also used to
translate Chinese, studied Latin, French, Greek in school.

> How were you introduced to them?
>
  You know, I can't remember! Haven't a clue how I found out about them, but I
was studying Irish on my own way back in high school. I thik I may have
stumbled across them in the language reference area of a very large bookstore.

>
> PART II:  INSPIRATION BY TOLKIEN (tangential to the questions on
> inspiration
> by Celtic languages):
>
> How many of you were inspired to invent a language because of your exposure
> to Tolkien?
>
  I was. Though I already had the idea (it grew out of secret codes to call my
sister names that she wouldn't understand. I started adding features from langs
a bit at a time, and eventually realized I was creating langs, not codes).


> How many of you based your conlang on one of Tolkien's languages, or your
> conculture in Middle Earth?
>
   Aelya was, most specifically. It was Quenya mutated as Irish, or was
supposed to be, anyway.

> How many of you have a constructed world, and, if so, does it include some
> of the races we associate with Celtic or Scandinavian mythology? (Elves,
> Dwarves, medieval societies of humans, Faeries or Fays?  Selkies?
> Wizards?)
>
   Yes, all of them.


> How many of you were inspired to examine Welsh, Hebrew, or Finnish because
> of your examination of Tolkien?
>
  No. I am interested in Finnish, but I got into that because of a gift in High
School - a teacher/mentor gave me a copy of Raimo Anttila's Historical
Linguistics. I've been stuck on Finnish sense.

> How many of you were inspired to invent a conlang or a conculture because
> of
> some influence OTHER than Tolkien?
>
   Yes for me. Most of my inspiration came from two movies: The Beastmaster,
and the Dark Crystal. And my own paganity in a charismatic household drove me
to secrety creating religions and pantheons, in other langs so the BI
(biological incubator - yes, we still do not talk) wouldn't find out.

> How many of you were inspired to invent a language because you engage in
> Roll-Playing Games?
>
  Not at all, though Aelya was used in a such a game for a while, as the
language of Fae creatures.

> How many of you were inspired to invent a language because you heard of
> this
> listserv?
>
 No.

> How many of you are members of the Mythopoeic Society, or the Society for
> Creative Anachronism, or other High Fantasy Groups?
>
  SCA. Pagan counts too, I think! ;)

> PART IV:  THE LUNATIC SURVEY REVISITED (because we are all "fous du
> langage," according to Yaguello and other French critics.
>
> Why do you conlang?  Who will speak it?  Read it?  What's the point?
> What's
> the beauty?  what's the intellectual draw?
  I conlang because of the magical - It speaks to the cheeseball high fantasy
wizard in me. My dream - wax-crusted illuminated grimoires in Taalen. Speak it -
 my pagan tradition will use words, but I don't know if anyone besides me would
have the oomph to learn it (well, and Thomas Leigh, he wants to learn
everything! ;) Read it - me again. Point and beauty - artefacts of art. Voynich
manuscript! Intellectual draw - cross-cultural education. Just thinking about
green globes who sign their words (Rikchik) requires some perspective on
humanity.

>
> To what would you compare a conlang?  Is it a miniature?  Is it a model?
> Is
> it a tapestry?  Is it an act of obsession and madness? <G>  Or is it a
> communicable language?
  Conlangers are artists, in particular poets. Its just that the new meanings
that poets give to words are encompassed by a whole new word in a new language
for conlangers. A conlang is therefore a poem. Like a poem, it can be a model
of an idea, a miniture expression of an emotion or place or person or thing.
Poets are considered mad by a lot of cultures (particularly the Celtic). As
poets cross boundaries (I love Neruda, for example, who writes in Spanish),
conlangs educate about humanity cross-culturally.


> If it is a communicable language, to whom do you speak it?
  Mostly to my close friends, though at the moment we only know a few words
here and there.

> > To what extent is the opacity or "alterity" of your language something that
> pleases you?  In other words, the sounds and the script have, even for you,
> a quality of being foreign, and this delights.
> Comment?  (I know that when I make maps of cities, and imagine myself in
> them, they delight me because they are both familiar and foreign at the
> same
> time.)
>
  Definitely! My impulse comes out of the wizardly tongues of high fantasy -
the more magical it seems, the more I am pleased. Perhaps this is why it is so
hard for me to hammer down grammar, inherently mundane.

> This is a difficult question:  how is it that a word sounds "right" to you?
> We recently discussed this.  To what extent are you finding righter, better
> words for the world in your conlang?  (Perhaps unanswerable).
   Words change as I discover "better" words. As in Diane Duane's children
novels, and in Ancient Egypt, words as power excite me. So the word has to be
right and express the mystical in the mundane. Water, for example, used to be
_nen_, in every lang, because of Tolkien, but recently I "found" _ora_. It
flows off my tongue like water would.

>
> How many of you are fictive map-makers, designers of fictive floor plans,
> fictive yachts, fictive star-ships, world-builders, calligraphers,
> cartoonists, etc.?  (These pursuits have been associated with conlanging.
> I
> 've done most of them.)
   All of them. And don't forget con-cooking too!


> How many of you have a special script in your conlang?
  Yes.

>
> If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing
> system?
> In other words, do you use unconventional letters to represent sounds?
> Why?
>
  Fairly phonetic in romanization. H is used extensively, as in the Celtic
langs. Most unique thing is using the apostrophe to indicate an original final
stop become a fricative, e.g. rag'h /raG/ "s/he carries" (3s.animate) vs.
reigen /'rej.gEn/ (1s, with the g non final).


> This is a question Heather asked, but I also asked it four years ago:  how
> many of you write in your language?  What do you write?
>
  I'm getting there rapidly. Write religious texts - myths, rituals, exegeses
on various religious ideas, i.e. gell, a physical representation of a promise
or oath, or yolas, a representation of a particular idea/force/deity, or on the
9 elements (I particularly enjoy this, and explaining it in a "Victorian"
Taalen).

> How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that
> purpose?
  If I had a voice I would! In the meantime, I love to translate songs.
Strangely, as a Pagan, it's weird that a favorite is Petra/Sixpence None the
Richer's "Road to Zion". I just replace the word Zion and it's perfectly pagan.

> How many of you started conlanging when you were a teenager and have stuck
> to the same language over many years?   Why?
  Yes to both, though Aelya, the original, has now been abandoned. Why? To get
to somewhere where I could write/calligraph one of those grimoires I talked
about.


> How many of you change conlangs regularly, developing structures for many
> languages but not sticking with any one for very long?  Why?
  Nope.


> For how many of you does your language function as a spiritual instrument?
> This is a deeply personal question--let me give you an example.  When I
> first started inventing "Tayonian" in my early teens, what I wrote were
> spells and prayers.  They had a talismanic quality.  Does that ring a bell
> for anybody?
  Absolutely. I find my conlangs as useful tools in rising above my conscious
self in spells (as I don't know Taalen very well yet), and also in speaking to
the beauty and Mystery of life. My answers up to now should exemplify how
importantly religious Taalen can be (and that Aelya was supposed to be).


> For how many of you was your language at least at one stage of its making
> meant to fool others, or to write secret diaries? (Me, waving my hand).
  Oh yes - see above about my sister and BI. Still a large chunk there - I am
pretty loudmouthed, so having a way to say things I _must_ say without
offending (because they don't know the lang) really appeals to me.

> How many of you can speak your language, at least to yourself and your pet?
> child?  spouse?  <G>  To what extent?
  Very minimally. VERY. But I plan to get better! (say that in a British
accent).

>
> How many of you have put up websites where your language can be showcased?
> If so, what is the website address?
>
   Not yet, but eventually.

> How many of you have made soundbytes of your language so the rest of us can
> hear it?  If so, give the site.
>
   Ditto.

> How many of you are comfortable talking to your boss, your professors, your
> family members about this pursuit?   How many of you have received
> condescending or other negative responses to your disclosure?  (I have.)
> Or
> even been called "pathological"?
>
  I'm comfortable. I have received negative responses (from comments
about "mental masturbation" to glares). I tend to take these like other
responses challenging the way I do things - "why the **** whould I care what
you think?" Obviously, this is not said out loud. I may have chronic foot-in-
mounth, but I'm not that dumb.

> For how many of you is the damning statement "better to learn real
> languages
> than invent private ones" a criticism you have encountered?  What would be
> your response to such a remark?
>
  Haven't encountered it. If I had, I'd have to say something about fantasy,
fiction, and non-representational art (i.e. art that does not represent an
actual person or thing, but an imagined one - Mona Lisa could be there). I
don't find conlanging to impinge on or otherwise diminish natlangs, and as a
matter of fact, tends to draw attention to natlangs more so. As if the Art of
Conlanging points to the Science of Language and linguistics.


>
> PART V:  GENERAL DEMOGRAPHICS:
>
> What is your age (optional--and can be general: 30-40, for instance).
>
   31.

> What is your profession or your station in life (i.e., if you are a
> student,
> what is your MAJOR; if a middle or high-school student, what is your
> intended major)?
   Grad student, Celtic Lang and Lit, hopefully to move back into Religious
Studies next fall.


> What is your gender?
  Male. I'm gay too, which I think intersects with gender in some ways...

>
> What is your nationality and your native language?
>
   American, english.

> What natural languages do you speak or have studied?
  chinese mandarin, japanese, sanskrit, old irish, irish, welsh, middle welsh,
finnish, turkish, cornish, latin, french, italian, portuguese, spanish,
romanian, ancient egyptian. These were all studied to varying degrees (some in
grad school, others in high school, and others privately. Fluency varies
drastically).


> How many of you have chosen a profession in linguistics because of your
> interest in inventing languages?  Or plan a profession in linguistics?
  Once I did. Bu cognitive linguistics professors soured me on linguistics.

> What have you learned from conlanging?
  An appreciation for all art, no matter how weird or strange it seems to me.
That everyone has very different idea of what is beautiful or inspiring.

> What texts on language and linguistics have you consulted to help invent
> your language?
>
  Lewis and Pedersen's Concise Comparative Celtic Grammar, Thurneysen's Old
Irish grammar, Raimo Anttila's historical linguistics, to name a few. To list
them all would take pages and pages. 2 books I got at the Boston conlangcon
from Yoon Ha have been particularly useful: "They have a word for it" and a
book on unique concepts/terms in japanese. Thanks Yoon Ha!

> Do you know of anyone who has not connected with the Internet or the List
> who has invented a language? (I'm firmly convinced that "conlanging" has
> been a private pursuit for many people long before the list started, but
> that the list has increased its visibility as an art).
>
  I do. A fellow grad student in my department, who nonetheless has some
contact with the list thanks to Thomas Leigh and I.

> Can you give me a short sample of your language with interlinear
> description
> and translation?
  Oh gods! I wish. Umm...let me think...

  Seir              n'  orath
  flow:PRES:ABS:3sa ART water:PL

  loen                  aune
  be_blue:PRES:CONJ:3sa river:GEN:SG

  sor     thaer.
  through town:NOM

  The bluw waters of the river flow through town.

>
> Would you object to my mentioning your conlang/and or your name in my talk?
> I will be discreet about some of the more personal questions you answered.
>
>
  No objections at all. You have to send a copy of the paper, though!

  Aidan

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