Re: Fruitcakes was Re: Kentum/satem
| From: | Maarten van Beek <dungeonmaster@...> |
|---|
| Date: | Tuesday, May 7, 2002, 8:22 |
|---|
> Van: Constructed Languages List
> Onderwerp: Re: Fruitcakes was Re: Kentum/satem
>
About the Dutch word "geuzennaam":
> >> What's the X-SAMPA for this wonderful linguistic bon-bon?
> >
> >Well, in my dialect it would be something like ['x@\s@"nam], where @\
should
> >be rounded instead of unrounded (but I don't know the X-Sampa for a
rounded
> >close-mid central vowel. ' indicates primary and " secondary stress (I
know
> >this is not X-SAMPA standard).
>
> I've always assumed Du. |eu| was pretty much the same as French |eu|, so
> "o-slash", which is also what my (older) dictionary gives.
Well, I think it is more rounded than the French |eu|, at least in my
dialect of Dutch.
> Apparently the first part geuzen- means "beggars", so "beggars' name" (?).
Well, originally (a few hundred years ago) "geuzen" meant "beggars,
scoundrels", from French. But then "geuzen" became the name given by the
Spanish to Dutch nobles who opposed the Spanish domination in the
Netherlands. Instead of taking it as an insult, the Dutch resistance adopted
the term and used it as a proud name for themselves. Hence the meaning of
"geuzennaam" as a name given to you in insult, and then adopted as your own
name and something to be proud of.
> (BTW is your medial [-s-] correct, or a typo???)
Typical for my dialect: iunvoicing of medial consonants... This is strongest
in northern [x] versus southern [G], where it becomes very obvious.
> The dict. is Kramers' Engels Woordenboek, 22d printing 1953.
> Quite clearly, judging from evidence on this List, pronunciation has
changed a good bit
> over the last 50 years-- or more, who knows. The pronunciations given
could
> well be left over from the 1st printing, whenever that was.....But for
good
> or ill, I've never had to speak the language, just read it, and my
earliest
> attempts to pronounce words (in 19th C. spelling too) would have made your
> skin crawl.
Well, the dictionary probably lists the theortical , "proper",
pronounciation. I doubt that it would list the actual, perceived
pronounciation.
Maarten