OT: LWII: The Euroclones Strike Back!

 --- Padryk Brãziej skrzypszy:

> > > On the contrary, I think your definition is
> > > quite good. My only objection is against the
> > > sentence "it closely mimics one or another
> > > of the previously introduced european based
> > > constructed auxlangs", because it rules out
> > > Esperanto itself.
>
> On the other hand, Eo is the theme to which all
> the others are but variations! ;) It therefore
> can't be a clone of itself.
Hey, are we talking about Euroclones or about Esperantoclones here? I would
rather state the opposite: the most typical of all euroclones is Esperanto,
because it draws its vocabulary from European natlangs (60 % romance, 40 %
other, IIRC). Most other languages modeled after Esperanto are at least partly
Esperantoclones.
To avoid confusion, let's call the whole bunch "eoclones" ;)) .

> > > BTW, why don't you add Kerno to the
> > > collection of Langmaker.com?
>
> No website for it, which is a requirement.
What do you mean, no website?! isn't the problem with Kerno is rather that
there are too many websites? Two for vocab, one for grammar, one or more for
texts... You might link to the IB home page.
Alternatively, what many people do is adding a Babel text, and linking their
model language description to that page.

BTW, in what year did you start Kerno? Was it inspired by Brithenig, or vice
versa? In how far did the two develop independently?

> Also, I am strangely hesitant to do that sort of
> thing. Probably a matter of having no control
> over the process or the result.
Incidentally, are you aware of "Yer Ugly Mug"? If not, then I'd say you take a
look at <http://www.kemenel.org/conlang/yum/index.php> . Any VIP in Conlang
land should be there, and there is still an awful white hole on the place where
your profile is meant to be...

> > > Cool. I'll be the first to learn Kernanto,
> > > then!
>
> No no NOOOO! That's "le Kernanto"!!!!! Only the
> hated and heretical Kernonantistas don't have
> the article there! You know, they left the
> Communitats in a huff cos of their claims that
> the rules governing article use were too
> nebulous. Typical! They just couldn't get
> behind the project and make it work!
Hmm. Wouldn't at least a small faction have left the movement because of a
conflict about the idea of abolishing at least one past tense and simplifying
the ending -ck into -cq, thus giving birth to "le/la/ill/- Kernantido"?

> > > No, I think I'll settle for the term
> > > esperantoids, and leave
> > > euroclone in its negative meaning.
>
> Fair enough. That would still leave me with
> only "euroclone". ;)
And yet, some of them are really quite funny. I mean, just look at a language
like Qosmiani: <http://thomasleigh.tripod.com/qosmiani/qosmiani.html> .
Obviously, some auxlangs are only called auxlangs because their creators
believed that they needed a broader purpose for their artlangs.

> > Sure. But it seems to me that the term
> > Eurolang is redundant, then.
> > Wouldn't it be enough to call Kerno, Wenedyk
> > and Brithenig "romlangs"
>
> Sure. But then you need a name for Arvorec,
> Seimi and Manoueg. They would be eurolangs as
> well; but not Romlangs!
True, but I doubt about the necessity of coining such a term. After all, there
are also non-European a posteriori languages. I there any particular need to
create a category where Arvorec and Seimo would belong to and Bauhinese would
not?
Besides, there is already a Euroclone called "Eurolang"! :))

> Anyway, we can discuss it all we like, and come
> up with alternatives to "euroclone"; but the
> fact remains that "euroclone" is an entrenched
> term in IAL discussions. And not just by us
> conlangers. It is in general linguistic currency
> both with and without overt condescension.
Of course. I have no ambition at all to change linguistic vocabulary. Most of
this stuff is merely thinking aloud!

> I just want to ensure that the IAL v. artlang
> distinction was understood; and to wonder that
> Langmaker's euroclone category is woefully
> inappropriate for the languages in it!
Well, thanks to our discussion it is going to be abolished! That is at least a
success!

BTW, what do the letters in the subject header "LWII" mean? Linguistic War II?

Jan

=====
"Originality is the art of concealing your source." - Franklin P. Jones

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