Re: OT: LWII: The Euroclones Strike Back!

--- Johannes de Stenbergense scriptavit:

> > Scots!
>
> !! Really! Amazing!
Stands to reason there'd be _some_ differences
between Scots and English!


> Hm. The latest new thing I found there was an
> interesting East-Germanic
> language, Dekavurian. But that is already some
> months ago.
I'll definitely have to visit.


> Quite fascinating! Do I get the impression that
> Paesan is slightly more archaic
> than Brithenig?
Probably. It seems to retain some things that B
has clearly lost.

> Is there a Kerno version too?
But of course! [And Latin, Spanish, Eo,
Eurolingua, Quenya, Catalunyan, Gothic, Old and
Middle English, and two unnamed Germanic
conlangs. I won't vouch for the Quenya et al.,
but the Brithenig, Latin and Spanish at least are
good.] There also seems to be one in Sorbadó, the
Paesan spoken in eastern Dûnein:

===============

KERNO (Literary Register, old orthography).

y hEpistolou dil nnustoer ndonne Xesuxristo i
dil nAbgaro, doy hEdessewecks ill rech.

Chap. i.        la Epistola del nAbgarre.  1. yo
Abgaros, doy hEdessewecks ill rech,  la
mbenweneth i la saluts i la witha long ti donam o
dhons Xesuxriste, ki yst a Hierousolym.  2.
dechtoer ke ty al nglannedu san ny mhetheckments
na ny yerves curz.  3. dechtoer ke ys sun curus y
hommen ceck, ach hys wethent; ach che ys
lis-levont y hommen llawed ach hys ambolont; ty y
lepoeres munnaz; ty y dheyavoules spoulsaz; ty
lla saluts ay cells doy kem long ay afermez
donaz-els; ach thy y mhorus a la witha
dels-ferris;  4. tots cestes syrprennend-mis ke
yo o asty il dews dy celles ke cestes fachez o dy
as dol ndew il maps crethim.  5. per ce rem yo
yscrivem-di, rhuant ke ty aci per le ngurar-mis
wenissast, dom en hay long afermez.         6.
dechtoer ke y Hiewdevou des-rident ach
hothent-ti.  7. werment la meva ciwtats sa-at
beck, mays mag asset pera y nus dew.

Chap ii.        la Epistola del nGhesuxriste.  1. o
hAbgare rech, sa-at boun pera ti, ke in mi
crethez, as kei no ast wethu rhen nunck.  2.
dechtoer werment ke cells ke avont mem wethu, ys
ne chrethent rhen; i cells ke navont mem wethu
rhen nunck, ys chrethent in mi ach hys wiwent.
3. a cella parts di la ndew ngarte rhuant ke yo
alla wenissam, dom ay il adecher-ti: dom ay il
co-fecher-els, dy mhews dheveres in il ist pays,
ach hyn cel moment il esser dond- lathu alla a li
ke mithev-mis aci.  4. in cel moment, cant yo yst
alla, yo ce yen lor mevou apostolou mitherai-tis,
ke ti curara ac ti a la witha dos-lathura, .i. ti
i dots costecun.

Chap. iii.      la ista epistola al ndonne Xesuxristoi
in Hierousolym fu missu dil nAbgaro, doy
hEdessewecks il rech, tral sew covarru Ananios,
rhuant kel don Xesuxristos alla wethessat a la
ciwtats Edessa.

I think that predates the Grammar Book!

=============

SORBADO

lo hEpistoili del nuster don Iesu Crist e del
Avgar rhuy la Eddess.

chap. 1.        epistol el Avgar.       1. eo Avgar, rhuy la
Eddess, salud al Iesu Crist, el
sáluadur bon, que as al Ierosolem.  2. saas zigud
que du sanes al pobel seynn la vedixen e seynn lo
xoili.  3. saas zigud que lo hômen xeig saun
zanad e hys weden; lo hômen llauid surxen e hys
ammlen; tu vunnes a lo llofeirs; tu spules a lo
ziavoili; tu le zunes el salud a hois que longe
saun estad allex; e du eylles lo voirths; 4. tud
has suorprenn que eo xreda o du seis el dheus
dels ceili que fagas hais xois o du seis fhel el
deus.  5. sig eo dui escrib, royann que du wenas
aceì, pal sanarmi, par-que eo sà longe allex.  6.
saas zigud que lo hYdevi a dui redden e a dui
eden.  7. ueremente la meu siudade sa vuyn, maïs
vunn, e rann asset par lo noi duo.

chap. 2.        epistol el Iesu Crist.  1. o hAvgare
rhuy, saas ven par tui que du xreda en mo,
del qual naas ueded mec nonc.  2. saas zigud que
ys que vi ueden no xreden en mo e gue ys que no
mo an ueded mec nonc, ys xreden e ueuen.  3. al
farth del teu xarth royann que eo wisite al
Eddess, eo zev adexerti: eo zev finir lo veu
hober aceí en el hos paes, e apos esser sursunsed
a le que vi vithes.  4. apos, cand eo serai
surtolled, eo vitherai un dels meu hapostoili,
que di sanara e gue di zunara la ued, par ti e
par tud hos vosco.

chap. 3.        has epistol veu mis al Iesu Crist al
Ierosalem del Avgar, rhuy la Eddess, pal seu
seruo, Ananias del nom, royann quel nuster don
uen al Eddess.

No guarantees on this one. Things may have
changed in how I understand Sorbadó to be since
this was made.

===============

> Who made these two translations, by the way?
Moi. Andrew corrected the Brithenig, of course,
cos I always get the mutations wrong.

> Hmmm. I feel a translation into Wenedyk
> coming...
:)

> > I'm sure it's not part of canon *there*
> > either;
> > but many consider it "more scriptural than
> > the
> > gospel", because of the direct attribution.
>
> Are you implying that *there's* Bible is
> different from ours?
Yes and no. Certainly, the Catholic canon is the
same regardless of rite. The Roman and Mozarabic
bibles are based on the new vulgate (holy St.
Jerome's); the British bible is based on the old
vulgate. I suspect the Byzantine is based on
something Greek. That was the case *here* as
well, that the British church used a different
translation. In particular, the Cambriese Rite
uses the Book of the Holy Saint Teliam (*here*
the Hereford Gospels or the Book of St. Chad) as
the basis for the Gospels. Where it lacks,
another British text is preferred over a
continental one.

If you can find Ox. Uni Press's "The Celtic
Gospels", you've got the kernel ffrom which the
vernacular translations were made. When I did the
paternoster on Romanceconlang, I used the version
found in that book.

> Are certain other
> apocryphical works canonical *there*?
I very much doubt it. That would be mucking about
_way_ too much. [Though personally, I wouldn't
mind if the Fifth Gospel managed to squeeze in
somehow...]

> Don't worry too much about Venedino, BTW.
Oh we're not! It's clearly a Sexond Rate
"auxlang" whose ideas were totally stolen from
The One And Only IAL!!!

> Don't forget that Esperanto was born
> in the RTC, and - no matter how much I fight it
> - is still popular there.
Well. Foreigners can do as they please I am
sure!!

> > > Their mistake that they were being misled
> before!
> >
> > Their true mistake is that they're being
> misled now!!
>
> Just wait until you see the first samples of
> Venedino. It's extremely easy!
> Some auxlangs claim that they can be learnt in
> two days, but Venedino goes much
> further: you don't need to learn it at all!!
I.e., it's not worth learning! Reason being, the
whole world has seen the sense in picking up
Kernopanto - the all new, One and Only IAL for
the whole universe!

> BTW, How is "Padraic" pronounced?
Er. _I_ pronounce it in (reasonably) good Old
Irish /patrik/. The OIr was Patraic, and a
reasonable approximation of Latin Patricius.
Modern Irish yields something like /paRIk/ where
R is the uvular "American" R. There again, I've
gotten half a dozen pronunciations and at least
two instances of "Irish speakers" insulting the
pronunciation as given by other "Irish speakers".
Along the lines of "oh, that's how those lowlifes
down in Ballybalogney say it. It should be X, how
we say it up here Shaleighleighgohooey".

Padraic.


=====
Et ters davigaint deck y yaithes 'n el drichlend le Roy Markon;
y cestes d' ils yspoil morès y ddew chaumèz e-z-el tons l' organón.




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