Re: Tsuhon: tentative phonology

On Thu, 3 May 2001, Henrik Theiling wrote:

> Yoon Ha Lee <yl112@...> writes:
> Ah, interesting, I only new the second.  But actually, I can speak not
> one word of Korean, I just looked at signs, tried to read them, or
> asked for the names of countries I'm supposed to write onto post
> cards. :-) I was told `taeman' (maybe old writing, yes) was to be
> chosen for a card to Taiwan. :-)
What works, works.  :-p  I can attest that my spelling in Korean is
atrocious, so at least you'd've spelled things right.  =^)

> > > No gender. :-(  This lovely way of confusing people.
> >
> > <rueful look>  I want mainly-Japanese grammar for this...trying to port
> > gender into that would be messy.
>
> Sure. :-) I'm very excited by the idea and looking forward to read the
> first phrases. :-))
Classes end this week, then there's study week, then finals...somewhere
in there I should be able to make progress on this admittedly wacky idea.

> > >            Nominative            Dative
> > > level 0:   der   groß-e  Stein   dem   groß-en Stein
> > > level 1:   ein   groß-er Stein   einem groß-en Stein
> > > level 2:   manch groß-er Stein   manch groß-em Stein
> >
> > <blink>  I was never taught level 2.  I thought all the things like
> > "jeder, solche," etc. either declined like der or like ein.  Hmm....
>
> Usually two levels seem to be are taught, because there are only two
> forms for the adjective: either level 0 == level 1 or level 1 ==
> level 2.  But still, they are definitely distributed over three levels
> of definedness as can be seen above.  Level 2 is used when either there
> is no determiner (e.g. in plural indefinite forms) or when the
> determiner has no case ending (like the uninflected `manch' above).
Okay, I think I understand now.  Maybe I should've continued with more
German this semester.  <sigh>

> I was always quite fascinated by the potential of confusion in German
> adjective endings.  There are only five attributive forms: rote,
> roten, roter, rotem, rotes, but there are 48 positions where they can
> occur: 3 genders + plural times 4 cases times 3 modes= 48 positions.
> Furthermore, they sometimes clarify the meaning without changing the
> form:
>
>    mit  den Jungen  (unambiguously plural:   with the boys)
>    ohne den Jungen  (unambiguously singular: without the boy)
Believe me, I know I wasn't the only one in intro German who got
confused.  I knew the declensions at one point but I'd have to really
review them.  Latin actually gives me *less* trouble, and I think it may
be because even though it feels like more combinations (probably around
same to a few more?  I'm not sure how to count vocative, locative, the
declension classes, etc.) they're more distinct.

YHL

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