Re: CHAT: Brainstorming! Relative clauses

Tal wrote:
>>>>>>
I'm currently struggling with understanding the rel. cl. of my lang
correctly, and thought I'd look at how it works in other langs.
Unfortunately, it seems that relative clauses is part of the grammar
that is 'not yet online' :) Does it change too often?

Anyways, how -do- you do relative clauses in your conlangs? Here's
something for y'all to translate... (substitute words when necessary...)
<<<<<<

These are made harder to understand as most of the participants are G4 (Animal),
except in the 'orrible long meandering example.

For the sake of clarity within this discussion, I'll pretend that John is the
addressee (G2), dogs are G3 (Human), mice and teeth are G5 (Inanimate), with
cats remaining G4.  No real reason for this, other than trying to make it easier
for the reader.  Attributes ("big" in this case) are in G6, as normal.

For all practical purposes, .yi. and .ru. mean the same as English "towards" and
"located at", they're effectively case markers.

> rel. subject:
> "The dog that saw the cat was large."
kunit, katoyir phithpheryit, mamkheknge"e"t
kuni.t  kato.yi.r  phithphe.r.yi.t  mamkhe.k.nge"e".t
dog.G3  cat.TO.G4  see.G4.TO.G3     big.G6.PAST.G3
"The cat-seeing dog was big"

> rel. object:
> "The dog saw the cat that killed the mouse."
kunit katoyir musirup mortuprur phitheryitnge"e"t
kuni.t  kato.yi.r  musi.ru.p    mortu.p.ru.r   phithe.r.yi.t.nge"e".t
dog.G3  cat.TO.G4  mouse.AT.G5  kill.G5.AT.G4  see.G4.TO.G3.PAST.G3
"The dog saw the mouse-killing cat"

Note: "cat-seeing" and "mouse-killing" are pretty poor translations, the
Wenetaic versions use "Instantaneous" verbs rather than "Continuous".

> nested:
> "The dog that saw the cat that killed the mouse that was large drank
> from the river that John put the poison in."
Erm, let me come back to that one, but you can probably see what the nesting
would start to look like.

> rel. indirect object:
> "The dog that John gave the ball to."
kuniyir Yonus pararyis
kuni.yi.r Yonu.s para.r.yi.s
Yonu- = John
para- = Ball
.s = G2
(do you really need an interlinear for this one?)

> rel. oblique:
> "The mouse that the cat chewed on." or,
> "The cat that the dog was bigger than."
This would be dealt with exactly the same as "rel. indirect object"

> rel. posessor:
> "The dog saw the cat whose teeth were huge."
Erm, more research is required.  I can say "The dog saw the teeth of the huge
cat", which I guess is close, but not close enough.









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