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NATLANG ruki-rule in Slavic, Scandinavian languages, Danish

From:BP Jonsson <bpj@...>
Date:Tuesday, August 19, 2003, 8:44
At 19:07 18.8.2003 +0400, Pavel Iosad wrote:

>As for Danish, reading it is not an insurmountable task ,
No. There are a few real bad false friends tho, like rolig, værelse, væske, taske.
>even with my >quite limited Swedish. Listening to it, OTOH, is a nightmare.
Not a nightmareto me, but hard, tho mostly I agree with Andreas: it depends vastly on who's speaking! I heard a lot of both Danish and Norwegian as a small child, and that certainly helps, since i had no prejudices about correctness and spelling then. However it may be telling that while I can speak an accented Norwegian I can't really master a Danish pronunciation.
>Minimal as >my experience with spoken Danish is, I can't understand a word, even if >it's sloooow and simple (unlike Norwegian).
It helps to know the correspondance rules between Swedish and Danish orthography and between Danish orthography and pronunciation. I have a paper treating the subject somewhere, and have been thinking of making a webpage on the subject.
>Do the Swedes have much >difficulty understaning the Danes?
Yes. I'm atypical in having less difficulty than most. At 23:15 18.8.2003 +0400, Pavel Iosad wrote:
>True. In my idiot-lect, obviously formed by texbooks, tapes, and >teachers, it's [x\]. I might try [x] when term starts, let's see what >happens :-)
Very likely nothing, especially if you have [R] for /r/, since all [R] dialects are also [x] dialects. You might as well point out the fact to the teacher! >;-) BTW do you have problems distinguishing [x] and [h]? At 17:45 18.8.2003 +0200, Andreas Johansson wrote:
>The most easily understandable Danish I've ever heard was from an Icelandic >minister at a meeting of the Nordic Council; he didn't have the lax >pronunciation of just about everything common among native Danes.
But Danish as spoken by Icelanders is a separate language called Isdansk! ;) In fact they use it as an inter-Scandinavian IAL and most Icelanders do consciously **not** strive for a good Danish pronunciation. At 12:58 18.8.2003 -0400, Isidora Zamora wrote:
>Does anyone have any idea how the definitite and indefinite articles in >Scandinavian languages arose? I have been wondering about this since my >first week in Denmark. The indefinite article is transparent. It's simply >the word for "one" with gender marking placed in front of the >noun. Spanish and French do the same thing.
>But how do you get a definite >article by taking that selfsame particle and postfixing it to the >noun?
You don't. The indefinite article is cognate with English _yon/yonder_ and German _jener_. Icelandic and Norwegian still have it as an independent pronoun _hin(n)/hitt_, meaning "the other one".
>(Do native speakers ever even wonder about things like that, or do >they just accept them?)
/BP 8^) -- B.Philip Jonsson (delete X) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__ A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \ __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / / \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / / / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / / / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /Gaestan ~\_ // /__/ // /__/ / /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\ Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~ || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! || "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)


John Cowan <cowan@...>
Isidora Zamora <isidora@...>Scandinavian languages, Danish, articles
BP Jonsson <bpj@...>Scandinavian languages, Danish, articles
Pavel Iosad <edricson@...>
Isidora Zamora <isidora@...>