Re: CHAT: Ave Maria

On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:37:11 +0200, Irina Rempt <ira@...>
wrote:

>We sing it like this, in the fourth tone:
>
>Verheug u, Moeder Gods en Maagd         Rejoice, Virgin Mother of God
>Maria vol van genade                    Mary, full of grace,
>de Heer is met u.                       the Lord is with thee.
>Gezegend zijt gij onder de vrouwen      Blessed art thou among women
>en gezegend is de vrucht van uw schoot  and blessed is the fruit of thy
womb
>want gij hebt gebaard                   for thou hast borne
>de Verlosser onzer zielen.              the Saviour of our souls.
Thank you, now I'm sure about the identification!

Your Dutch version seems to be somewhere in between.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:09:33 CDT, Danny Wier <dawier@...> wrote:

>I assume Deigenetrix = Theotokos?
I'll try to find out about the Greek word. In Church Slavonic,
_Bogoroditsa_. The standard translation is Godmother, but the
latter has a few more litteral back-translations.

>What's the Slavonic prayer by the way?
Bogoróditse, Dévo, rádujsia,
blagodátnaja Maríje, Gospód' s Tobóju,
blagoslovénna Ty v zhenákh, i blagoslovén Plód chréva Tvojegò,
jáko Spása rodilà jesì dúsh náshikh.

More or less literally:

'Godmother, Virgin, rejoice,
[Full-of-(Divine)-Goodgiving] Mary, the Lord (is) with Thee,
Blessed (art) Thou among women, and blessed (is) the Fruit of Thy womb,
As to the Saviour (Thou) gavest birth // of our souls.'

I hope my transcription isn't too messy... The intended encoding is
ISO 8859-1, capitalization renders the abbreviated spellings.

I could not find a good translation for _blagodatnaja_. Literally,
it means 'full of _blagodat'_, and _blagodat'_ is literally
'(Divine) Good-giving', the Good emanated by God. I don't think
'Grace' would be the proper translation, linguistically (but
I can't speak for theological uses).

I think _blagodatnaja_ could be something like _eudotike_ in Greek,
and _blagoslovennaja_ (which I translated as 'blessed') must be
something like _eulogoumene_. The variety of Church Slavonic used
in Russia since 17th century is in fact a bit conlangish: it was
artificially designed to convey the Greek original very literally.


Basilius