Re: Chinese Dialect Question

It is practiced here in Nottingham, but not by me or by most people I
know at University. It's considered here to be a mark of the uneducated
(or just plain stupid), so anyone who does it has a lot of trouble at
job interviews etc if they can't adopt a different accent.

>On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 09:13:04PM -0400, Tristan McLeay wrote:
>
>
>>Funnily enough, there's some people here (Melbourne, Oz) that use [f] as
>>the normal version of /T/. All of them are adults. (e.g. my former boss, a
>>'maffs' teacher I had once, a chemistry teacher I had once.)
>>
>>
>
>Okay, apparently this is a widespread substitution.  I guess I've just
>been conditioned to think of it as an uneducated/speech error.
>
>
>
>>>But I don't know that you can claim  [T] is particularly difficult, since
>>>many children say [T] when trying to say [s].  It just depends on the
>>>child.
>>>
>>>
>>I don't think I've ever heard that one. I can remember being taught how to
>>say [T], though, getting into the van which we bought when I was four.
>>
>>
>
>You've never heard someone with a lisp?  That's what "lisp" means,
>at least usually - saying [T] for [s].  I knew many children growing
>up who were in speech therapy because they had such a lisp.  It's also
>stereotypical of effeminate homosexuals; author David Sedaris was such
>a child and remarked in his book _Me_Talk_Pretty_One_Day_ that his speech
>therapy class might as well have been called "Future Homosexuals of
>America", indicating that the stereotype proved accurate at least in
>those cases. :)
>
>
>
>>>Are there any dialects in which /l/ and /j/ have merged into [j]?  That's
>>>another common children's error.  ("Turn out the yight, Mommy!")
>>>
>>>
>>I've never heard that one.
>>
>>
>
>Well, I have firsthand experience of that one - I remember my parents
>painstakingly explaining how to say a proper [l].  I've since encountered
>enough accounts of it that I assume it's not all that rare, but then again,
>that could just be selective attention on my part.
>
>
>
>>I *have* heard chiwdren using [w] for /l/, but never [j].
>>
>>
>
>I have heard that as well, but it's a more thorough substitution;
>I think the [l]->[j] only happens initially.  In fact, I suppose
>it's possible for children who make that error to simultaneously say [w]
>for final (or "dark") [l].  I don't know, though; I have no memory of
>how I pronounced, e.g., "milk" back then.  I just remember being coached
>with phrases like "Yittle yemon yion".
>
>-Mark
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