Re: C-IPA underlying principles and methods

En réponse à Andreas Johansson <and_yo@...>:

>
> I'm obviously missing something here. Do you mean that the C-IPA
> diacritics
> causes to symbols to move between different positions on the IPA chart
> rather than between different actual PoAs?
>
Yep. The choice of diacritics that look like IPA diacritics is for mnemonics
only (as I'm explaining for the third time now).

> I disagree about X-SAMPA [s_d] not being a true voiceless dental
> fricative.
> I mean, it's voiceless, dental and fricative! Indeed, I can produce [T]
> and
> [s_d] at the same PoA - don't ask me what the essential articulatory
> difference is*, but it's not PoA.
>
> * I guess it has something to do with the difference between sibilant
> and
> non-sibilant fricatives, but I don't know what that difference is. I'm
> getting out of my depth here, I'm afraid.
>
I personally find [T] pretty sibilant, so I don't know what the difference is
either.

>
> IPA, however, has no symbol for it. ( Up-side-down "a" being on the
> same
> height as ash.)
>
*That's* @} (since the schwa is a bit lower than open-mid vowels). You forgot
that C-IPA's purpose is to transliterate the IPA and only the IPA, and not
to "correct" its "mistakes". Thus it doesn't provide simple ways to mark
characters that don't exist in the IPA.

>
> Well, then "+" obviously does not merely shift the PoA forward (since
> it's
> able to change the "sibilancy", or whatever). Moving on the IPA chart
> works,
> of course.
>
Since the IPA chart is organised in terms of PoA (labial, labiodental, dental,
etc...) and MoA (stop, fricative, trill, etc...), that's how I described it. I
said exactly that I was talking about moving in the chart in my mail.

> But I don't understand what two systems I'm supposedly mixing?
>
The actual IPA diacritics (consistently rendered with a ^ followed by another
character in C-IPA) with the C-IPA diacritics which move characters on the
chart.

Christophe.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

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