Re: OT: Opinions wanted: person of vocatives

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 03:17:47PM -0600, Elyse Grasso wrote:
> For what it's worth ... I was raised Catholic and can remember having to
> say the Our Father out loud in (US, public) grade school.
>
> "Our Father which art in heaven" MAY have been the Protestant version.
Since the Lord's Prayer comes verbatim from the Bible (Matthew
6:9-13), the difference is simply one of translation.  Different
churches, even within the same denomination, often differ in the
one chosen.

The two most widely used English-language translations are the King
James (a.k.a. Authorised Standard) Version and the Revised Standard
Version, which have these translations:

KJV (1611):

Mat 6: 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art
         in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from
         evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory,
         for ever. Amen.

(The 1769 KJV inserts "it is" between "as" and "in heaven" in 6:10.)

RSV (1952):

Mat 6: 9 Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed
         be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread;
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, As we also have forgiven our debtors;
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.

There are, of course, many other English translations.  Curiously,
though, I can't seem to locate the one that has "tresspasses"
and "those who trespass against us" in lieu of "debts" and
"debtors", though it seems a common substitution.

The Vulgate has this:

Mat 6: 9 sic ergo vos orabitis Pater noster qui in caelis es
         sanctificetur nomen tuum
Mat 6:10 veniat regnum tuum fiat voluntas tua sicut in caelo et in terra
Mat 6:11 panem nostrum supersubstantialem da nobis hodie
Mat 6:12 et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimisimus
         debitoribus nostris
Mat 6:13 et ne inducas nos in temptationem sed libera nos a malo

And the original Greek is this (e = epsilon, E = eta, o = omicron, O = omega):

Mat 6: 9 outOs oun proseuchesthe umeis pater EmOn o en tois ouranois
         agiasthEtO to onoma sou
Mat 6:10 elthetO E basileia sou genEthEtO to thelEma sou Os en
         ouranO kai epi tEs gEs
Mat 6:11 ton arton EmOn ton epiousion dos Emin sEmeron
Mat 6:12 kai aphes Emin ta opheilEmata Emon Os kai Emeis
         aphiemen tois opheiletais EmOn
Mat 6:13 kai mE elsenegkEs Emas els peirasmon alla puoai
         Emas apo tou ponErou oti sou estin E basileia
         kai E dunamis kai E doxa eis tous aiOnas amEn

-Mark

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