Re: OT: Opinions wanted: person of vocatives

At 10:09 03/07/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 09:46:31AM +0100, Peter Bleackley wrote:
> > The Ecclesiastical Latin version I learnt at school (I was born after the
> > council, but Latin versions of important prayers were still taught) went
> > like this, with line breaks representing the musical phrasing
>
> > Pater Noster
> > qui es in caelis
> > sanctificatur nomen tuum
> > adveniat regnum tuum
> > sicut in caelis et in terra
>
>Hm.  Skips right over "thy will be done," eh?
Bother! Forgot "fiat voluntas tua"


> > panem nostrum cotidianum
>
>cotidianum?  not quotidianum?
As I say, this is probably mediaeval Latin.

> > da nobis hodie
> > et dimitte nobis debita nostra
> > sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris
> > et ne inducas nos in tentationem
> > sed libera nos a malo
>
>
>What I'm curious about is why the Vulgate leaves off the trailing bit
>with "for Thine is the kingdom," etc.  It's in the original Greek.

I think it's in the "original" Greek in one Gospel but not in another
(Presumably the original was in Aramaic). Liturgically, it's separated out
as a response to another prayer, said by the priest immediately afterwards.
This prayer, in the English liturgy, goes

"Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and give us peace in our day. In your
mercy keep up free from sin, and protect us from all anxiety, as we wait in
joyful hope for the coming of our saviour, Jesus Christ." At this point the
congregation respond with the Doxology. I have no idea what the Latin is
for this prayer, as I have never heard a Tridentine Mass in full (it is now
mainly celebrated by those who disapprove of any kind of modernisation of
the Church, even with the authority of a Council), or for that matter,
heard a New Rite Mass in Latin (although I have heard it in Japanese, just
about recognising the words "Kami" and "watashitachi no chichi").

Pete

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