Re: Second report on Koni'

Isaac Penzev wrote:
> Christophe Grandsire ikrih:
>
>
>>En réponse à Isaac Penzev <isaacp@...>:
>>
>>
>>>I didn't mean aspiration. I meant triade. For my ear Dutch /f/ is [f],
>>>/w/
>>>is [v] and /v/ is [f] plus something I'm unable to catch. What are they
>>>in
>>>reality in Modern Standard Dutch?
>>>
>>
>>Depends on which Standard Dutch you mean ;))
>
>
> Hmm. I thought any civilized language would have akinda ;))
>
>
>>In the South, usually /f/ is [f], /v/ is [v] and /w/ is [v\] or [w] or [v]
>>depending on position. More in the North, at least according to Irina Rempt
>
> and
>
>>my own ears tend to agree, /f/ is [f], /w/ is [v] and /v/ is lax [f] (I don't
>>know how IPA would mark that, [v_0] perhaps), so the difference between /f/
>>and /v/ would be a tense-lax distinction. Do you think it would fit what your
>>ears tell you? :)
>
>
> It would. So it's North. I hear it the way you say. A propos, can you then
> explain me this tense-lax distinction? I'm especially interested because it may
> help me to describe better the Ukrainian phoneme /v/ whose main allophone is
> definitely different from Russian [v] (which is the same as in French, I
> believe), but surely not [w] which occurs only before consonants and in
> auslaut.
I thought lax/tense distinctions only applied to vowels.

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