Re: OT: LWII: The Euroclones Strike Back!

--- Jan van Steenbergen scrievit:

> "Scrievit"? That is not Kerno, is it? I mean,
> varying spelling, okay, but this
> looks like an entirely different language!
Scots!

> > > Did you notice how small the letters
> > > on the grammar page are?!
> >
> > Small? They look fine to me!
>
> Tell me where you buy your glasses, I want to
> have them too!
What glasses! Gichore nose out o that weeny
little screen! ;)

> > ... result of a strong Q-Celtic
> > immigration into a P-Celtic-fused-with-
> > Romance speaking land. I favour the last
> > option, especially given the
> > time frame of Welsh speaking kingdoms in
> > Britain's north *here* and the Goidelic
> > invasions that gave rise to moden Scotland.
>
> Seems like the most plausible solution, indeed.
> The only thing that bothers is
> that this would mean that Q-Celtic is a
> superstratum rather than a substratum,
> which IIRC is not exactly what Geoff had in
> mind. Hasn't he ever ventilated his
> own opinion on the matter?
He's been quiet (even on Celticonlang), and seems
to have been hesitant to sort out the history
much (unless things have changed - I haven't
peeked at the Breathanach website recently...will
have to emmend that situation!). We all just sort
of assume its ancientry and that it exists and
have kind of tacitly agreed not to look under too
many rocks. :)

> But there is also real Scottish Gaelic in IB,
> right?
Yeah. Up north of Forth especially, in the
Highlands certainly. The Romans didn't get far
enough to have any great effect on whatever was
spoken up there (P-Celtic probably, Pictish
certainly); and I doubt that Votadinian Romance
was ever in a strong position at all. It was
probably no more than the language of the
aristocracy that had connextions with Kemr
proper.

> Hmm, I can't recall to have ever seen Paesan?
> Where should I look for it?
Um. Let's see if I can find it! .. Ah, here it
is:

===================

BRITHENIG.
llo hEpistol di nustr dôn Iesu Crist e di Afgar
rhui Eddes.

Chap. i.        epistol Afgar.  1. eo Afgar, rhui Eddes,
salyd Iesu Crist, ill salwadur bon, ke es a
Ierosolem.  2.  sa es ddith ke dy san all pobl
seint lla fedigen e seint llo llyf.  3.  sa es
ddith ke llo hôn cheg sun sanad e ys widden; llo
hôn choes suryen e ys amblan; ty funn a llo
llofr; ty yspuls llo ddiawl; ty lle ddun ill
salyd a ogyn ke llong sun ystad udr; e dy eill
llo forth;  4. tud yst mi surffruinn ke eo grêdd
o dy sia ill dew dill cel ke feig yst chos o dy
sia feil ill dew.  5.sig eo dui yscrif, rhuann ke
dy ci wein, per ill sanarmi, perch eo su long
udr.  6.  sa es ddith ke llo hYddew a dui rhidden
e di eden.  7.  gwerment mew giudad es fuin, mai
funn, e rann asset per nu ddew.

Chap ii.        epistol Iesu Crist.  1. o hAfgar rhui,
sa es fon per tui ke dy greidd in mi, di llo chal
no a widded rhen nonc.  2.  sa es ddith ke ys che
fi widden no chrêdden in mi e ghe ys che no mi
han widded rhen nonc, ys chrêdden e wiwen.  3.
all barth di tew garth rhuann ke eo diyrn a
Eddess, eo ddef addigerti: eo ddef ffinir  mew
h-ober ci in yst paes, e affos esser cherrisadlle
a lle ke fi fithef.  4. affos, cann eo serai
syrstolled, eo fitherai yn di mew h-apostol, ke
di sanara e ghe di ddunara lla wid, per ti e per
tud ogyn gwsc.

Chap. iii.      yst epistol ffew mis a Iesu Crist a
Ierosalem di Afgar, rhui Eddes, per sew serw,
Ananias dill nôn, rhuann ke nustr dôn wein a
Eddessa.

================

PAESAN.
lo hEpistols de nuster dôn Iesu Crist e de Avgar
rhuy l'Eddess.

chap. 1.        epistol l'Avgar.        1. eo Avgar, rhuy
l'Eddess, salud a Iesu Crist, il salwadur bon,
que es a Ierosolem.  2. saes theú que thu sans al
pobel seynt la vedigen e seynt lo llyfs.  3. saes
theú que lo hônen cech sun sanaú e ys uhithen; lo
hônen llaud suryen e ys amblen; tu vunns a lo
llofers; tu espuls a lo thiavels; tu le thuns la
salude al ogen que long sun estaú uder; e thu
eylls lo vorts; 4. tud est mi-surfruinn que eo
chrêdam o thu fors il dew del cel que fhayas est
chos o thu fors hil le dew.  5. sig eo dui
escriv, rhuann que aci tu wenas, per il sanarmi,
per-que eo sun long uder.  6. saes deú que lo
hYddews a dui rhidden e di eden.  7.gweremente la
mew ciudade es vuyn, mais vunn, e chrann asset
per li nui thew.

chap. 2.        epistol le Iesu Crist.  1. o hAvgar rhuy,
saes ven per tui que thu chrêdhas en
mi, del chual na as wideú rhen nunc.  2. saes
theú que ys che vi uhithen no chrêthen en mi e
chue ys che no mi han witheú rhen nunc, ys
chrêthen e uhiwen.  3. al farth de tew charth
rhuann que eo diurnam a Eddess, eo thev
adicherti: eo thev finir mew hober ci en est
paes, e afos esser cherrisadle a le que vi
vithes.  4. afos, cann eo serai surtolleú, eo vag
a vither un de mew hapostols, que thi va a shanar
e chue thi va a thunar la wid, per ti e per tud
ogen gwsco.

chap. 3.        est epistol vew mis a Iesu Crist a
Ierosalem de Avgar, rhuy l'Eddess, per sew
seru, Ananias del nôm, rhuann que nuster dôn
gwenad a Eddess.

=================

The first is Brithenig, the second is Paesan. You
can find a translation of the "Epistle of Christ
and Abgar" online somewhere easily enough.

For the unaware, the Epistle is ancient and
considered by many to be legitimate Scripture.
Some in the last centuries have proposed adding
it to the canon.

There's hardly a Christian house in Kemr and
England that doesn't have the Epistle hanging
from the wall with a small icon of Christ (or
Christ and Abgar) attached. I'm sure it's not
part of canon *there* either; but many consider
it "more scriptural than the gospel", because of
the direct attribution.

> You dare to call Venedino "some other
> language"?
Bof!! "Venedion"! What a larf! Oo, we're shaking
in our boots and no mistake!

> You are speaking about the One
> And Only IAL here!
Jocko-come-alate!

> Their mistake that they were being misled
> before!
Their true mistake is that they're being misled
now!!

Padraic.


=====
Et ters davigaint deck y yaithes 'n el drichlend le Roy Markon;
y cestes d' ils yspoil morès y ddew chaumèz e-z-el tons l' organón.




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